Is There A Life After Death

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
The Bible explains very well that there is life after life either
with God or seperated from Him. It also explains how to
know how it's going to be for each of us based on the
instructions therein. If you had rather spend more time
planning for this life than the next, that is up to you. I
believe God is right in his instructions. If I am wrong I
have nothing to lose. If you think I am wrong and I am
right, you will have eternity to regret it. Think about it.

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zgreatarteest wrote:

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
The Bible explains very well that there is life after life either
with God or seperated from Him. It also explains how to
know how it's going to be for each of us based on the
instructions therein. If you had rather spend more time
planning for this life than the next, that is up to you. I
believe God is right in his instructions. If I am wrong I
have nothing to lose. If you think I am wrong and I am
right, you will have eternity to regret it. Think about it.

When Pascal first proposed this preposterous blather, I suspect many of his fellows recognized it for the blatant bit of hypocrisy it is. Too bad people like you, with hundreds of years to sort it out, cannot see it for the self-righteous quackery that forms its core.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Z. I hope 2004 brings you peace and contentment.

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truth
And the main problem with Pascal's Wager, Frank, seems to me to be that it enjoins us to throw away freedom of thought in our ONE life for the sake of a false promise. Such VICIOUS nonsense!

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Frank Apisa wrote:

zgreatarteest wrote:
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
The Bible explains very well that there is life after life either
with God or seperated from Him. It also explains how to
know how it's going to be for each of us based on the
instructions therein. If you had rather spend more time
planning for this life than the next, that is up to you. I
believe God is right in his instructions. If I am wrong I
have nothing to lose. If you think I am wrong and I am
right, you will have eternity to regret it. Think about it.

When Pascal first proposed this preposterous blather, I suspect many of his fellows recognized it for the blatant bit of hypocrisy it is. Too bad people like you, with hundreds of years to sort it out, cannot see it for the self-righteous quackery that forms its core.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Z. I hope 2004 brings you peace and contentment.

Pascal didn't propose the blather, but rather expounded on it and like you wound up "beating himself on top ot the head with a hammer". God is the self-righteous quack that forms its core. Pascal, like you, want to quantify the infinite spiritual things of God with a formula to fit you brain. You have a lot of company trying to do the same. I refuse to serve a God that I can figure out. If could figure Him out he wouldn't be any smarter me. You however, are only as intelligent as your self made god which by all your indications seems to be yourself. Unfortunately your god is as mortal as you are. How can that not be scary for a person of your intellect except that it brings you no wisdom to match it? The answer lies herein:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

I hope your CHRISTmas has been merry also. Thank you for your 2004
hope for me. I will continue to enjoy the peace and contentment that can
only me found in Him. "A peace that surpassses all understanding". I pray
that you will find relief from that most uncomfortable agnostic fence you
straddle. Since you can't sit there forever, I hope you, soon enough, fall off on the side that will bring the comfort that can only be found in Him.
There is no way for me to explain to you that which cannot be known. Only
experienced. You don't have to understand the law of lift to board an
airplane and enjoy the flight. The same with soaring with God and enjoying his fellowship and the eternal benifits of it now. How could you
possibly understand what you have never experienced and refuse to get
out of the boat and test the "living water" so you will never thirst again. I
would tell you, but it's spiritually discerned and you would only try to beat it to death with your intellect.

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truth
Oh Frank, please DO "beat it to death with your intellect." That's what it's for.

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zgreatarteest wrote:

Quote:

If I am wrong I have nothing to lose. If you think I am wrong and I am right, you will have eternity to regret it. Think about it.

If you are wrong you will have spent your life in the service of false ideals. I would regret that. I would rather continue search for what is true, and know nothing, than pretend I know what is not knowable.

The damage done by people who "know" the will of God is staggering. Wars, discrimination, overpopulation, the loss of natural resources, and the repression of the sciences from astronomy to genetics can all be laid at the feet of those who believe. We have all lost because of those who believe that trusting God costs them nothing.

I do not fear eternity. On the one hand, if I am right, I don't expect to encounter an eternity in which I am present to either regret or rejoice. If you are right, I don't expect your God will be fooled by my pretending to believe what I do not believe. And, if He is the sort of God who is going to punish me (and others) for the "sins" of intellectual honesty and natural curiosity, I don't think He is the sort of God anyone is going to enjoy being around for eternity.

Think about it.

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JLNobody wrote:

Oh Frank, please DO "beat it to death with your intellect." That's what it's for.

Yeah, he doesn't have anything else, so let's don't
keep him deprived of the joy he gets from whipping
a his dead horse.

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Whipping a dead horse is a lot like prayer.

On the one hand, it doesn't do any good.

But, on the other hand, it doesn't do any harm either.

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Greyfan wrote:

zgreatarteest wrote:

Quote:
If I am wrong I have nothing to lose. If you think I am wrong and I am right, you will have eternity to regret it. Think about it.

If you are wrong you will have spent your life in the service of false ideals. I would regret that. I would rather continue search for what is true, and know nothing, than pretend I know what is not knowable.

The damage done by people who "know" the will of God is staggering. Wars, discrimination, overpopulation, the loss of natural resources, and the repression of the sciences from astronomy to genetics can all be laid at the feet of those who believe. We have all lost because of those who believe that trusting God costs them nothing.

I do not fear eternity. On the one hand, if I am right, I don't expect to encounter an eternity in which I am present to either regret or rejoice. If you are right, I don't expect your God will be fooled by my pretending to believe what I do not believe. And, if He is the sort of God who is going to punish me (and others) for the "sins" of intellectual honesty and natural curiosity, I don't think He is the sort of God anyone is going to enjoy being around for eternity.

Think about it.

You are talking about RELIGION. I was talking about a personal relationship with God. It ain't in the head, OK. Religion is a head
thing. Walking with the God of the Bible is evident every day you walk
with Him and you don't even have to wonder whether it's a false
ideal. Everything God has told you is evident in the here and now. With RELIGION you do not have this. People who don't know God
think all kinds of stuff as you have written about. Want to know
something?......Ask God and He will show you the answer in some way
without fail. When you do that every day as I do and I has never
failed me. Well, Duuuh. Our thinking about what He is or isn't don't
move Him one way or the other on how we spend eternity. Faith in
Him will. You will not get your answers from your head. You are
a three part being. Mind, Spirit and Body. Locating your spirit is
where you are going to find your answers. God is Spirit. Doesn't
it make SENSE to communicate with Him spiritually. You will have
to get out of your boat first and test the water. Does take faith. You
got enough to do that or had you rather sit around and think. What
have you got to lose. You can always go back to where you are.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal
power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood
through what has been made, SO THAT THEY(you and me) ARE WITHOUT
EXCUSE. Romans 1:20

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Yes, and some people don't like the idea of talking to voices in their head "just in case" and because "it can't hurt".

Now consider the possibility that you are wrong, but not in teh way you earlier ceded. Think about whether you are wrong in this way:

What if the afterlife is dominated by a different god. And one who hates yours and will eat anyone who worshiped him.

Don't you want to stop believing in your god "just in case" you will be eaten by the "real" god when you die?

I don't expect you to stop worshiping your god, and I don't care or want you to. But I do hope you realize the stupidity of the "just in case" argument.

An open-ended "just in case" argument can justify any kind of stupidity.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Yes, and some people don't like the idea of talking to voices in their head "just in case" and because "it can't hurt".

Now consider the possibility that you are wrong, but not in teh way you earlier ceded. Think about whether you are wrong in this way:

What if the afterlife is dominated by a different god. And one who hates yours and will eat anyone who worshiped him.

Don't you want to stop believing in your god "just in case" you will be eaten by the "real" god when you die?

I don't expect you to stop worshiping your god, and I don't care or want you to. But I do hope you realize the stupidity of the "just in case" argument.

An open-ended "just in case" argument can justify any kind of stupidity.

WHO IS THE "JUST IN CASE" ARGUMENT YOU ARE REFERING TO?

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IT'S NOT A PERSON, IT'S AN ARGUMENT.

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OW - ME HEAD!

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Greyfan wrote:

Whipping a dead horse is a lot like prayer.

On the one hand, it doesn't do any good.

But, on the other hand, it doesn't do any harm either.

ALL MY PRAYERS GET ANSWERED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. NOT
ALWAYS LIKE I WANT, BUT ALWAYS LIKE I NEED. WHAT DO YOU
PRAY TO WHEN THEY DON'T GET ANSWERED? DID YOU PRAY IN
FAITH? FAITHLESS TRY AND SEE PRAYERS DON'T GET ANSWERED
UNLESS GOD JUST DECIDES TO HAVE MERCY ON YOU.

AS FOR DEAD HORSES, WHIPPING THEM MAKES ME TIRED AND
FEEL FOOLISH FOR DOING SO. LIKE I AM FEELING NOW ABOUT
THIS FORUM.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

IT'S NOT A PERSON, IT'S AN ARGUMENT.

OH! Excuse me. I'll try harder from now on.

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Zgreatarteest - I am interested in how you define "answered".

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dlowan wrote:

Zgreatarteest - I am interested in how you define "answered".

In starting to answer consider this:

"your Father knows what you need before you
ask Him." Matthew 6:11

"..faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result
so thay you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. But if
any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all
generously and without reproach, and it will be given him. But he
must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubls is like
the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought
not to expect that he wi8ll receive anything from the Lord. James 3-7

There are different kinds of prayer for different needs as for others
or for yourself. Answered prayer is assured to a child of God. (One
who loves and follows Him). I find that I do not pray much for myself as
since I am already following Him, he meets my needs above and beyond
what I could ever think or ask. When I do
pray I do not pray the problem, I pray the answer which I find on the
pages of God's Word. God already tells us to speak to our need with
the Word of God and things will change. That is a benifit of being a
child of God. How he answers my prayer I leave open ended. Thay is
up to Him as He knows what is best. He never fails to answer my
prayer with something better in a way better than I expected. Does
He answer prayer as fast as I want Him to. Not always. But His timing
in the way He answers is always perfect. I just rest in the fact that I
have ask in faith and he will answer to my best interest. I don't dwell
on it any further. I do not ask again. However, I do continue to gives
thanks to Him that my prayer has been answered even if I do not see
the result of it as yet. Prayer is not a time or place in the day, Prayer
is a way of life for the believer. God's ways and thoughts are higher
than our ways and thouhts so I, by faith, put the answer in his hands.
I can honestly say that He has never failed me. My wife has been
given the death sentence twice by modern medicine from two diffeerent
kinds of cancer in the last two and a half years. She is now cancer
free because of prayer. I was espected to die of and incurable disease
27 years ago. I was cured by prayer 26 years ago. Many times my
prayer answers are not so dramatic. One day I just realize they have
been answered. What I have said takes time to learn to walk with Him
in this way. We have to grow up spiritually just as we do physically.
I hope this helps. It is hard to condense a book into a few words. To
explain answered prayer encompasses more than I could possibly
cover here. Again, I hope this helps.

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zgreatarteest,

I assume from your answer that there would not be any conditions under which you would deduce that your prayers had NOT been answered?

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If you wish to isten to your rice Krispies, that is , of course, your choice. i, however, wish to experience calm and some enlightenment in this corporeal plane. i, therefore, was getting a great deal of insight from frank, jL, and twyvel.

Now this is a bit off target but. where are some good resources on effective meditation for therapeutic result?

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farmerman- Check out Bernie Siegel, "Love, Medicine and Miracles", and Carl Simonton, "The Healing Journey".

Both books talk about using meditation and guided imagery in healing. I know the value of the practice from personal experience. Years ago, I contracted a "terminal" cancer. I hooked up with a therapist who had trained under Bernie Siegel.

For those who don't know, Bernie Siegel is a surgeon out of Yale. He began to realize that there was more to healing than medical intervention, and put his ideas in practice with his patients.

The therapist that I went to taught meditation and guided imagery. In addition, I often visited a yoga center, where I learned yogic breathing, and meditation.

No, the meditation and guided imagery did not cure my cancer, medical science did. But it greatly lowered my stress levels, and enabled me to deal with the disease in a much more productive manner. It also enabled me to endure a rigorous, potentially life threatening medical procedure, with little fear.

Getting back to zgreatarteest's thesis about prayer, I would suspect, that to a believer, that prayer would offer similar benefits to a person as meditation. The difference is, that with prayer, people are expecting something to happen outside of themselves, rather than working to bring change about internally, as I did.

Link to Bernie Siegel

Link to Carl Simonton

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