17
   

Afghanastan - Obama's war of choosing

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:08 am
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

They handed Afghanistan to Obama and are desperately trying to dissociate themselves from the mess they created.


Who are they?

How many conservatives/Republicans can you name who originally supported the war in Afghanistan but who now want us to pull out?

Are you of the belief that we never should have invaded Afghanistan, or do you simply believe it could have been carried out more successfully? If the latter, what do you think should have been done differently?
xris
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:47 am
@JTT,
How short is your memory ,dont you remember the terror training camps ? I asked you what result would you think it would have on the Afghans our pull out. You appear to be concerned about our security not those we promised to help. Now how is that believing propaganda.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:33 pm
@xris,
Quote:
How short is your memory ,dont you remember the terror training camps ?


How short is yours? Don't you remember and know of the terrorist training camp in Fort Benning, Georgia?

Quote:
America’s Terrorist Training Camp
Posted October 30, 2001
What’s the difference between Al Qaeda and Fort Benning?

By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 30th October 2001

“If any government sponsors the outlaws and killers of innocents,” George Bush announced on the day he began bombing Afghanistan, “they have become outlaws and murderers themselves. And they will take that lonely path at their own peril.” I’m glad he said “any government”, as there’s one which, though it has yet to be identified as a sponsor of terrorism, requires his urgent attention.

For the past 55 years it has been running a terrorist training camp, whose victims massively outnumber the people killed by the attack on New York, the embassy bombings and the other atrocities laid, rightly or wrongly, at Al-Qaeda’s door. The camp is called the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, or WHISC. It is based in Fort Benning, Georgia, and it is funded by Mr Bush’s government.

Until January this year, WHISC was called “the School of the Americas”, or SOA. Since 1946 SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers and policemen. Among its graduates are many of the continent’s most notorious torturers, mass murderers, dictators and state terrorists. As hundreds of pages of documentation compiled by the pressure group SOA Watch shows, Latin America has been ripped apart by its alumni.


http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2001/10/30/americas-terrorist-training-camp/



JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:36 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Conservatives/Republicans never want illegal invasions to end, Finn. It cuts into profits and the opportunity to pillage the invaded country. Hell, you know your history better than that.
xris
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:46 pm
@JTT,
Your failing to answer my question again and again. Come on now what do think the result would be if we left now, knowing what the Taliban can do? I'm not going to defend Bush or his activities so dont dilute my question, please.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
As has already been pointed out in this thread,

Let's see, you are responding to the first post on this thread and this is your first post on the thread.

I am curious how you already pointed something out when you haven't posted here before. I guess you are just trying to give us another example of a conservative out of touch with reality.
xris
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:49 pm
@JTT,
I'm not a republican I'm a democratic socialist from the UK. Im not defending invasion, Im trying to be pragmatic about how the Afghans would suffer if we left without giving them security.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 02:50 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
His attempt to politicize the war, not any perceived criticisim of it, is what angered Republicans.

That's funny Finn. So, they had no problem with his comments being out of touch with reality?
hamburgboy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 03:23 pm
@xris,
xris :
i can understand your frustration and your concern for the afghan people.

do you truly believe that western nations/armies will be able to give the afghans peace ?

IF ! we are guided by history , we may have to admit that many afghans do not welcome western " interference " ( or freedom ) .

we also have to consider that the taliban have an almost unlimited supply of fighters in pakistan ready to fight in afghanistan .

( imo it's one of those situations were it is almost impossible to come up with a " win-win" solution - but that's only my opinion )
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 05:04 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
As has already been pointed out in this thread,

Let's see, you are responding to the first post on this thread and this is your first post on the thread.

I am curious how you already pointed something out when you haven't posted here before. I guess you are just trying to give us another example of a conservative out of touch with reality.


Pretty neat how you can use a keyboard with one of your feet firmly planted in your mouth. You must be quite limber.

- It's possible to read all of the postings in a thread before responding to the original; for the first time.

- It's possible to note that a point has already been raised by someone else

I don't mind, at all, the incorporation of personal barbs in A2K exchange (I'd be quite a hypocrite if I did), but if you're going to employ them you should take at least some care to avoid having them so easily turned back on you.

You're 0-2 so far pardos.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 05:13 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
His attempt to politicize the war, not any perceived criticisim of it, is what angered Republicans.

That's funny Finn. So, they had no problem with his comments being out of touch with reality?


0-3.

As I've already pointed out Steele neither opposes the war nor believes Obama chose it, (he's being cynical not delusional) but you're so fixated on what you think is such a clever comment that you're going to just keep pushing on with it.


plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 08:20 pm
@msolga,
Quote:

I often wonder how much the US economy these days depends on endless war.


Me, too!
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 08:26 pm
The destruction of the Buddhas of Bamyan or Bamiyan was a crime against humanity: http://www.afghanistan-photos.com/crbst_21.html

Interestingly, putting together my ENG 101 class for the fall, I came upon an essay by a Muslim woman who thinks American women are oppressed as well.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 08:57 pm
@xris,
Quote:
Im not defending invasion, Im trying to be pragmatic about how the Afghans would suffer if we left without giving them security.


There would be some retribution, as there always is in these situations. Karzai had better have a helicopter ticket out. Then things would settle down and life would go on there as it has for centuries.

People who actually care, like G Mortenson, can continue to do their thing. Have you read his book? There didn't seem to be a great deal of resistance to women getting an education.

We can't give the Afghans or anybody security. Those things have to be worked out by each society.

Wouldn't it be ironic if all this mineral wealth allowed Afghanistan to acquire the means to invade the UK, Canada, the USA and all the other countries that are trying to "save people for democracy"?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 10:39 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
As I've already pointed out Steele neither opposes the war nor believes Obama chose it, (he's being cynical not delusional) ...


Gee, there sure are a lot of Republicans who have misread Steele's remarks, Finn. Perhaps you, the great strategist, should clue them in.
0 Replies
 
stevecook172001
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 04:18 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

talk72000 wrote:

They handed Afghanistan to Obama and are desperately trying to dissociate themselves from the mess they created.


Who are they?

How many conservatives/Republicans can you name who originally supported the war in Afghanistan but who now want us to pull out?

Are you of the belief that we never should have invaded Afghanistan, or do you simply believe it could have been carried out more successfully? If the latter, what do you think should have been done differently?

Given that Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi and given that, virtually to a man, the terrorists who blew up the twin-towers were Saudi then no, the USA government should not ordered the invasion of Afghanistan. They should have, by their own logic, have ordered the invasion of Saudi Arabia. However, since the House of Saud, the House of Bush and the House of Cheney et al. have common economic interests going back decades, that was never going to happen.

Your country is run from behind the scenes by a unelected oiligarchy who masquerade behind your "democracy" and condemn thousands of your countrymen to spill their blood in the name of these psychopaths as well as condemn untold hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in far off lands to die before their time.

Wake up
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 05:52 am
@JTT,
How very confident you are of others situation. How easy it is for you to take away an opportunity for freedom from oppression. How easy is it for you to make light of the Taliban's oppressive treatment of women. Don't dilute the question with silly scenarios. We have started this , we should complete it.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 06:39 am
@xris,
xris wrote:

How very confident you are of others situation. How easy it is for you to take away an opportunity for freedom from oppression. How easy is it for you to make light of the Taliban's oppressive treatment of women. Don't dilute the question with silly scenarios. We have started this , we should complete it.

Unbelievable arrogance.

It's like a bully attmpting to take the moral high ground after kicking the **** out of someone by saying, " I started this so I am going to finish it. Allow me to assist you to the emergency room...... No, really, I insist..."

The people of the USA need to wake the hell up and realise that in supporting their government's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as turning a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine, they are complicit in mass muder. I wont hold my breath waiting.

The only "moral" lesson your conntry has taught the people of the world is that if they have darker skin than you and live near the oil, their blood is cheaper than yours.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 06:47 am
@stevecook172001,
Quote:
Given that Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi and given that, virtually to a man, the terrorists who blew up the twin-towers were Saudi then no, the USA government should not ordered the invasion of Afghanistan. They should have, by their own logic, have ordered the invasion of Saudi Arabia.

Steve, you do know that Obama was in Afghanistan right? You do know that the Taliban refused to give him up, right?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 06:48 am
@parados,
How can anyone "politicize" a war when wars are ex officio political?
0 Replies
 
 

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