Language bothers the hell outta me . . .
I wish there were more of it . . .
I've always been greatly affronted at the recent (only about 500 years or so) prohibition on multiple negatives in English . . . but i don't get real upset, 'cause i ain't got no dog in that fight . . .
Multiple negatives... after being barracaded with shouts of 'suit, suit', I overheard one of the hooligans saying 'I ain't givin' you no nothing' followed by 'you ain't got no nothin' ta give me.'
Come again?????
Well, please talk about dialect since Thirsty's not likely to return.
I like Craven's rule about double negatives; very clever. I'm likely to pepper my conversation with all manner of run-ons, early or late conjunctions, and worse, but now I won't feel badly if I add some double negatives, too.
Letty, nice to see you here. Did you like our class schedule? I hope you weren't offended with my comment about teachers. I'm sure, Letty, that you were a wonderful teacher. I wish there were more.
Double-negatives, when used unwittingly, are appalling.
Double negatives, when used conciously, can be great, although they can convey a completely different meaning to the two possible ones considered: 'I don't not love you' sounds rather coy or uninterested.
Piffka's right. Thirst isn't coming back. If we wanna talk about dialects, I think someone should start a new thread.
If we're gonna talk about dialects here, then I gotta say that I don't know nuttin' about 'em. Ey, I'm from Noo Yawk. We don't got dialects here.
Dialechte! Is it correchte!
Nobody's got dialects where they come from. Like accents, they're for other people!
Exactly!
As my Brummie teacher from years ago said of the Mancunians when she studied there, 'we just stared and revelled at each other's dialect.' Everyone thinks that what they speak is the norm.
Me, I don't speak a dialect; it's recieved pronunciation all the way for me. From being banded around the UK on my studies, I have adapted a lot of dialect words though...
Just to throw a bit of flame on this fire, it's always a good idea to remember the distinction between PRESCRIPTIVE and DESCRIPTIVE grammar. Prescriptive grammar is that which is thought to be the "correct" or "standard" way to write a language, while descriptive grammar is an account of how the language is actually used by speakers of that language.
Prescriptive grammarians tend to be written/compiled by people with funny ideas about how their language should work. A good example is the notion that prepositions should not end sentences in English, an idea which persisted in the educational system until rather recently (and an idea still taught by curmudgeons!). The reality of the matter was that 19th century grammarians thought Latin was the ideal language and tried to force English to match up with it. In other words, it was a rule fabricated for that reason alone. People have always ended sentences in English with prepositions, as any good descriptive grammar will tell you!
All that being said, it seems the original poster likely doesn't have trouble with actual grammar mistakes (as no native speaker of a language would!); rather with mistakes of style: how to punctuate, capitalize, use appropriate tenses based on THE KIND OF MATERIAL ONE IS WRITING, and so on. I would recommend a good style manual as the best aid, along with others' ideas of reading well-respected examples of material similar to that which you are expected to produce. If you are writing history essays, for example, read a lot of them, analyze the structure of the article as a whole, the structure of the paragraphs, and finally that of the sentences. Pay attention to when different types of tenses are used, and so on.
Good luck!
Hiya Mezzie and welcome. I enjoyed your post.
Me too!
(I love the language, like arguing and discussing how it works, and generally agree with Roberta!)
I'm pleased to see that most of the Americans in these postings agree with my British notions of grammar. You would think to listen to/read the media that those the other side of the big pond had an entirely different grammatical system. Could this partly be due to the preponderance of a yiddish grammar influencing the English we hear on sitcoms like Seinfeld, Friends, Ellen, Frasier which seem to be written by Jews, or by New Yorkers at least?
Oh yeah, and RP certainly is a dialect, just like all the rest of 'em.
Clary, English is English. Yiddish may influence a turn of phrase, but I don't see it as a major or even a minor grammatical influence. Nor do I see as a presence outside of some large urban areas, despite tv sitcoms.
Sure, I know, but things like 'enjoy' and 'hopefully' have come into our language because of their presence in sitcoms and the like. And phrases like already at the end of sentences, I should live so long etc. Yiddish has vastly enriched English. Just as American black phrases like dis(respect) as a verb, yo! etc are fashionable amongst the English speaking young. Don't forget, we have a filtered form of American here, largely movie American, so we don't know what is normal outside the sitcom until we come and listen for ourselves!
"Hopefully," I can relate to. But what about "enjoy?" I have a feeling that "hopefully" was around and misused long before sitcoms.
As for Yiddish enriching English, take a gander at this thread. You might enjoy it. :-D
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10418&highlight=
Thanks! I mean enjoy used intransitively, which would have been impossible until about 1985 with me when I heard it on sitcoms and visited New York as well. Taking a gander sounds beautifully unAmerican but ... obviously you say it!? How about Have a dekko or have a butcher's? (We of course tend to have rather than take things like looks, baths etc.)
Don't forget shizznit and bling bling there Clary. All the white kids here are using those terms. Roboita, did you post the link there? S'all good...annoying maybe, but still good. Hey, hoes this, I mean, how's this for a game? Compose English sentences with the grammatical structure of other languages? That might be educational.
BLING BLING?
Ali G made that up! He was taking the p*ss.. and now everyone is using it... completely defeating the point of it all!
