grammar mistakes

t4k Welcome to A2K!

The fact that you can perceive your mistakes is a plus. I have one suggestion. When you write on the computer, try to avoid computerese like "i" and "u", and all those other cute little shortcuts. What happens, is that people tend to get used to writing in a certain way, and it is difficult to switch from one form to another.

Pretend that you are writing on A2K for a class. Read your sentences before you push the submit button. Practice in writing will improve it, and you will be having fun here.

By the way, I have a master's degree. I would like a dollar for all the run on sentences that I have written, and some more money for the times that I edited "was" into "were".

thirst 4 knowledge--

Welcome to A2K.

Now, are you bragging or complaining?

If your informal (sloppy) written English is giving you problems in school, perhaps you should make an effort--at least during the school year--to
write formally when on line.

Writing "i" instead of "I" may be easier--that nasty old shift key is a nuisance to use--but it is not standard English.

I understand that these days informal, internet English is acceptable on line. Unfortunately, English teachers and other people with power over your life prefer standard English.

Of course I'm prejudiced. I used to teach English to both the talented and the unwilling.

Hey thirst 4, welcome to A2K. I used to proof read my papers by reading them backwards. Starting with the last sentence and going on up the page. That way you don't get lulled into the flow of the paper or sidetracked by the content.

Good writing
That was a good suggestion reading a paper backward. That does isolate each sentence so you can look at it alone from any other. I would add a few more suggestions. First, write the paper as soon after the assignment is given. Don't wait until the last minute to throw something together. When you finish your paper, put it down for a few days or a week however long you have to do the assignment. Pick it up a few days before it is due and read it again. You'll be looking at it with fresh eyes almost as if it were someone else's paper. My final suggestion for now would be to pick a rule and look through your paper for that one mistake. Then pick another rule and look for that one. For instance, look for dangling modifiers in one read and then look for comma splices in another read. It may seem like work, but that's what good writing is.

Hiya Thirst, Why not start honing your writing and proofreading skills by finding and correcting all the errors in your opening post on this thread?

Hey grammarians,

I would say the best way to recognise good style is not so much in proofreading or reworking your own essays (valuable though that is), but perhaps more in being careful of the quality of the material you choose to read for information, or for pleasure.

Everyone reads trash at times, or cornflakes packets, and there's nothing wrong with that; but the only way you will learn to recognise that trash is to have good standards of your own to compare it with. The way to build and set your own standards, I would suggest, is by reading and enjoying good material.

And yes, I agree with the earlier points about avoiding obvious slackness like writing "i" or "R U" or "C U" and so on. Zero tolerance of these would be a good start.

(affidavit: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a teacher of English)

McT

Exactly, McTag. I would have said that if you hadn't. In the States I'd recommend reading The New Yorker, a weekly magazine.

Thirst4- It helps if you can also be with people who have good grammar or at least LISTEN to people who have good grammar. Talking books are one way, public radio or classical music radio stations are another. Sad to say, at least in the States, many public educators cannot speak or write well. Do not always expect your teachers to be the best source.

I would recommend for study a terrific book that most American know: The Elements of Style by Wm. Strunk (and later edited & revised by E.B. White). Rather than having incomprehensible rules, this book is a short series of essays on quality writing with many rewriting examples. Ahh, I found it online along with a huge source for more excellent writings -- Bartleby's!

Strunk's Elements of Style

Finally, check that you have learned your lessons by taking various online tests for grammar. See where your mistakes are made and study them.

Let's go over this study plan:
1. Read well-written works for enjoyment most of the time.
2. Listen to educated people who speak grammatically.
3. Study the Strunk book.
4. Test yourself to determine your weaknesses... concentrate on those.
5. Read more from Bartleby's.
6. Come back to a2k and we'll help.

I'll add my voice to the chorus encouraging you to read. It is much easier for me to decide whether something sounds right than to remember all of the strange rules of English grammar. I've always been a voracious reader, and successfully lobbied to skip my 7th-grade English class because I already knew the grammar that was being taught. The proof was in several essays I wrote, which were grammatically perfect, (no claims on grammaticl perfection these days, though) but I had never been formally taught any of the rules of grammar -- I was just going by what sounded right.

My successful lobby meant I never, ever received formal instruction in grammar -- what I didn't know from reading I learned from professors' corrections of my papers while I was an English major in college, and what I didn't learn then remains unlearned (though I have picked up a lot here, from Roberta especially.)

Gosh, Piff, I went to Strunk online and to the page entitled "Words Commonly Misspelled" and I find I disagree with the last two lines on that page.

Maybe I couldn't get a job as an American proofreader!

Hey, thirst:

Strange though it may be, I learnt grammar by a kind of osmosis, through good books and plenty of reading. I am a very strict grammarian, and I am lucky enough to have known all the rules of English grammar- including that elusive subjunctive that litters almost all of my posts- from a young age. For some people, reading works. (Strangely enough, until about the age of 11, I used 'thee' instead of 'you' as a subject. This was due to reading Shakespeare, so watch out!)

Conversely, you could be a person for whom reading does not work. You could not notice the insinuations in the text, and read a text on the value of its words, rather than its grammar. Piffka set out a plan, of which I approve greatly. I present you with two tips for now:

1) Never use 'I've got', 'he's got', etc, or 'I got' when you mean 'I have.' When you think about things, 'I've got' makes no sense at all, because you have not /gotten/ the Television, you /have/ the television. You have not /gotten/ friends, you /have/ friends.

2) Never use shortcuts. They are entirely undesirable.

3) If people speak to you with sloppy English, do not be afraid of responding back to them in good English. In the place where I grew up, everyone had cringeworthy maîtrises of the English language. Be proud of your language!

Good luck. If you need any help, I am sure that the rest of the A2Kers and I will be here to assist you.

Dròm_et_rêve -- Hello! Welcome to a2k, already I am admiring you and look forward to your subjunctives. I wouldn't mind a "thee" every now and again, either.

McTag - "Until and undoubtedly" or "some one and some time"? It is written for Americans, of course. I should have also mentioned that the Strunk edition offered by Bartleby's is the original. It was revised in 1935 and again in 1959, the version I have. There is a fourth edition available on Amazon:

Strunk, et al.; Elements of Style

I would especially recommend "Section V. An Approach To Style" which was added in 1959. The Table of Contents' "Reminders" are a great teaching tool in themselves and were standard issue when I was in school.

Hey Piffka; thank you for your (thy! ) welcome . I think that we should reintroduce some differentiation between you as an object and as a subject, but somehow I do not think that going back to Elizabethan English would suit the world, as most people tend to cut corners.

The faculty never taught really us grammar when I was at school; the only thing that they taught me regarding grammar was to try to avoid using the passive, strangely enough, as they felt that it was ambiguous and messy.

One thing that I forgot to mention was that I feel learning languages can both improve one's vocabulary and increase one's appreciation of how languages work... the few rules and concepts that I did not understand when young came to me instantly when I started really learning Spanish and French. Frankly, there are different ways for different people, but the keys to it all are absorption and practice.

I think a mix of passive and active voice sounds best, but I am a yin/yang sort. Unfortunately my experience includes many years of writing for government and I gained an awful passive habit. In the past I have tried to revise "to be" out of all my writings for drill, but what an effort that takes.

I completely agree, d-et-r, I run a school of English and the best teachers are those who have learnt another language to an advanced level!

Piffka, me too. I just ended almost a dozen years' employment for an insurance company where one of my functions was proofreading. I hardly notice the passive voice any more... or should I say, the passive voice is hardly noticed by me any more...

The passive voice is pretty funny, isn't it?

Grammar schmammar. I know what I like.

Piff, from Strunk, I would not write to-day (that is, he recommends the use of hyphens in some words where I would not use them), and also I certainly think it is correct to write "sometime" whereas he states the words should be written separately, as in "some time". This to me is wrong, and in fact can have a different meaning.

Hey, disagreeing again (isn't that what this forum is all about?) the passive has its place; for example in official documents, and in oratory:

"Never, in the field of human conflict, has so much been owed by so many to so few."