dlowan wrote:You skeert me a bit there, MichaelAllen - I was thinking this does not sound like your normal reasoned posts!
dlowan, I thought most would like the play with arguments there. But, I do follow most of what I have to say even though I think Goldhammer hits on many things I believe as well. I have a complex look at the world that often seems contradictory. But, it comes with the territory. An old U.S. Marine attitude is best exemplified by the saying, "The civilian will never understand the Marine's ability to hold a rifle in one hand and a child in another." That love-hate thing. The battle of good and evil in all of us. The tough love, tough decisions we are all forced to face will make a person think one way one day and slightly different the next as our most natural impulse is to evolve.
hobitbob, we have a very real terrorist situation even though the war in Iraq might not have been entirely of "terrorist" motivations. We stood to have something to gain from that scenario and the "holy war" hype is our distraction. From the terrorist perspective, we are in a "holy war." The American people really have yet to know why we went over there. We were convinced about the need for Sadam's removal and that weapons of mass destruction were a major threat, but all we need is to be told what we want to hear after the 9/11 incident and we are putty in the hands of the leadership.
Might does not make right. I would never say that. But, when you have a volatile situation, you don't take a knife to a gun fight. And you don't tell people what to teach their own. As far as gaining control of the situation and offering some guidance for its direction, I thought we'd all understand the need from some kind of leadership. And we can't let fanatics be our leaders or extreme ideas be our guidance.
I just don't want a world where people are scared. Why should they be when we have the resources to end the terror? We are not there to put the Iraqi people under our thumb, we are there to rid them of the oppression that they have been living under. Then we educate them when we have their attention, which I believe we had at one time and could probably get back with a little more work. Those sensitive to our efforts will listen to us and that will spread. Of course, would we be going against Dr. Goldhammer's wishes for what not to teach?
The Pearl Harbor and Revolutionary men reacted to adverse situations and did something about them. They didn't talk themselves around in circles while the problems needed real solutions now. And no, they are not the ones who got us into the mess. They are the ones who got us out though. If we were to liken it to what we are going through today, it's not Bush and Powell. It's the blue collar worker I sat beside at the bar on the day terrorists took our towers down. He wanted to go to war. He wanted to do something about it. And at the end of the day, when we had a name attached to the catastrophe, every red-blooded American wanted to do something about it. Now, our blood has cooled and our heads are a bit more clearer than that day. We can think through our emotions and come up with better solutions than delivering that good old fashion butt whoopin. But, take yourself back to that day and tell me you didn't feel something stir. Especially when you watch tapes of people jumping and you hear that one was a pregnant lady. I guess the bottom line is that we really didn't oppose going to Iraq. The French took a good bit of hits for their opposition and that should be proof enough. The irony is how much we oppose it now after all is said and done. I know we're still losing people and technically we are still right in the middle of it even though we declared it was over. The point I'm trying to make is that the opposition wasn't really there before we went over. It is now. Regrets. War humbles. Get that message and you'll understand what I'm trying to say about how we should handle the situation now.
It is not a warrior's attitude to embrace war. Indians warred and most never even liked the idea. It is a warrior's attitude that sometimes that's what it takes. Maybe in a sense it is "brain off." But, many wars have come as a result of plenty of "brain on" negotiations and reservations. When you are getting attacked, what do you do? When someone steals something from you in plane view of you, what do you do? When someone is getting beat in front of you, what do you do? If you don't stand up for yourself, you will lose everything you have. I'm willing to fight if I have to, after I have exhausted all other resources. And I won't allow myself to be guilted into feeling something I don't or to not speak my mind about it. You can't shame me to shut my mouth.
