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Why republicans oppose Public Option.

 
 
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:04 am
It isn't a matter of it's effectiveness, or it's ability to provide health care to the most people at lower costs. The main reason republicans oppose a public option is because it conflicts with their political ideology. their concern is with "socialism" rather than the well-being of lower class Americans.

A study has found that 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. There are 46 million Americans with no health insurance at all. And what is the republican's solution for this problem? Well, they don't actually have a solution, at all. There really has been no concrete alternative to national healthcare, none. They rant and rave about the evils of national health-care and yet they have posited no solutions themselves. All I hear from talk show radio is McCarthyian scare tactics and paranoia over the "socialism".

This is entirely absurd. The fact that there is even a controversy over whether we should help our fellow Americans is sickening. Make no mistake this is a MORAL ISSUE and to say otherwise is disingenuous. I under stand Obama is trying to make everybody happy (however impossible that is) he needs to make a stand.
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Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 07:08 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
comments?
Whip
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 01:13 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;68545 wrote:
comments?

Yeah.

Like most Obongo supporters, you claim his socialist "health care" program is good. If you honestly support it, why so and how is it good for the people?

Secondly, do you agree with the lawn jockeys partners-in-crime that the poor should pay a fine for not having "health care"?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 07:36 am
@Whip,
Whip;68546 wrote:
Yeah.

Like most Obongo supporters, you claim his socialist "health care" program is good. If you honestly support it, why so and how is it good for the people?


Care to point out how americans having healthcare who wouldn't otherwise have it, is a bad thing?

Quote:
Secondly, do you agree with the lawn jockeys partners-in-crime that the poor should pay a fine for not having "health care"?


If we have a public option, then everybody will have healthcare.
kynaston
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 11:02 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;68545 wrote:
comments?


It is difficult for a foreigner to comment, because the Republicans seem so totally ignorant of the outside world and so wedded to lies about it that it causes us to get too angry when they publicise monstrous slanders about our various countries and their systems. There is also the point that they regard anyone who agrees with anyone from outside as some sort of traitor to their insane vision of 'America' as a plutocracy in which the moneyed have the absolute right to rule and yet those they let die are somehow 'free' in a way that civilized people aren't. Like people in the old Soviet Union, they believe what they are told and try to silence anyone who tells the truth. It gets a bit tedious arguing with such weirdoes.
thomascrosthwaite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 12:14 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
I agree with everything you said, Kynaston. As I stated before we are fast becomming a backward nation. What is so strange about this is that their religion and their polities do not agree. Jesus was a socialist and would be a democrate if he was living today. www,freewebs.com/thomascrosthwaite/
Badmutha
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 01:10 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;68536 wrote:
It isn't a matter of it's effectiveness, or it's ability to provide health care to the most people at lower costs. The main reason republicans oppose a public option is because it conflicts with their political ideology. their concern is with "socialism" rather than the well-being of lower class Americans.


I oppose the Public Option......because all the other Public Options in existence at the moment.........ARE BEYOND BANKRUPT!

Quote:
A study has found that 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. There are 46 million Americans with no health insurance at all. And what is the republican's solution for this problem? Well, they don't actually have a solution, at all. There really has been no concrete alternative to national healthcare, none. They rant and rave about the evils of national health-care and yet they have posited no solutions themselves. All I hear from talk show radio is McCarthyian scare tactics and paranoia over the "socialism".


Which is the testament to the spiraling out of control costs of health care.......which the Democrat's "solution" does nothing to address.

Quote:
This is entirely absurd. The fact that there is even a controversy over whether we should help our fellow Americans is sickening. Make no mistake this is a MORAL ISSUE and to say otherwise is disingenuous. I under stand Obama is trying to make everybody happy (however impossible that is) he needs to make a stand.


Yes of course....its a "moral issue"....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6DdS2YRaWbU/SmsuI0xkecI/AAAAAAAABig/jWge344OnR8/s400/George_Obama_gif.jpg

.....as his own abandoned $1/month brother rots away in some hut......pooping in a bucket.
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Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 08:15 pm
@Badmutha,
Badmutha;68568 wrote:
I oppose the Public Option......because all the other Public Options in existence at the moment.........ARE BEYOND BANKRUPT!


I wonder why that could be. It couldn't be the nonstop budget slashing and tax cuts, effectively draining the lifeblood from these options, could it?

Quote:
Which is the testament to the spiraling out of control costs of health care.......which the Democrat's "solution" does nothing to address.


Your free market at work. This is what the free market says you should pay for healthcare, who are you to question the invisible hand? I thought this was what you guys wanted. Don't mess with the market and such. Anything else would be... "socialist"?



Quote:
Yes of course....its a "moral issue"....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6DdS2YRaWbU/SmsuI0xkecI/AAAAAAAABig/jWge344OnR8/s400/George_Obama_gif.jpg

.....as his own abandoned $1/month brother rots away in some hut......pooping in a bucket.
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And the hooplah you guys would raise if he did anything about it. You guys almost ate your collective beards over his grandmother. Sheesh.

Coming to you live from in between a rock and a hard place.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2009 02:24 am
@Badmutha,
Badmutha;68568 wrote:
I oppose the Public Option......because all the other Public Options in existence at the moment.........ARE BEYOND BANKRUPT!


And the United States isn't already? Give me a break.

If you want to look at the best healthcare systems in the world they are all national programs....big surprise. :eek:


But monetary concerns are more important than the well-being of millions of Americans. This is nothing short of treason.




Quote:
Which is the testament to the spiraling out of control costs of health care.......which the Democrat's "solution" does nothing to address.


And the United States spends millions of times more on healthcare than any country in the world and yet we still have much less actual care being received, you can contemplate on why that is but I think it might have something to do with the fact that these insurance companies are FOR-PROFIT businesses. Their goal is not to help people but to make MONEY! The fact of the matter is that the more people that are denied, the more profit these businesses make.


Quote:
Yes of course....its a "moral issue"....


Correct. And what is the republican solution?

"Let them die, it's more profitable!"


Quote:
.....as his own abandoned $1/month brother rots away in some hut......pooping in a bucket.


Are you suggesting that this moral issue should rest on the shoulder's of one man?

AD HOMINEM....

Suppose abe Lincoln owned a slave, should then we abandon this notion of "freedom and equality" because one man didn't live up to his values?



You have nothing to offer but more grandstanding and noise-making. We need a solution and the republicans are going to deny us that solution because it conflicts with their political ideology with scare-tactics.
Badmutha
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 08:14 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;68569 wrote:
I wonder why that could be. It couldn't be the nonstop budget slashing and tax cuts, effectively draining the lifeblood from these options, could it?


Right.....4 Trillion dollar budgets arent the problem.....massive Democrat black hole entitlement programs arent the problem.....the ever growing Democrat provided social tit isnt the problem.....

.....the problem is THE US GOVERNMENT GAVE HARD WORKING AMERICANS A BIGGER ALLOWANCE. How dare they.....


Quote:
Your free market at work. This is what the free market says you should pay for healthcare, who are you to question the invisible hand? I thought this was what you guys wanted. Don't mess with the market and such. Anything else would be... "socialist"?


MY FREE MARKET AT WORK? PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THIS COUNTRY A FREE MARKET STILL EXISTS?

There are 3,000 health insurance companies in this country.....why am I limited to choosing between 9?

It seems we might have a different definition of a "Free" market.........

Quote:
And the hooplah you guys would raise if he did anything about it. You guys almost ate your collective beards over his grandmother. Sheesh.

Coming to you live from in between a rock and a hard place.


So George-The-Hut-Obama isnt a big deal.........

......well what about Obama's aunt.....currently living on the taxpayer dime in a Boston slum

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CvXEhdXFheY/SQyEk_z_rGI/AAAAAAAAEsc/fqND8c16qdM/s400/obama+aunt+Zeituni+Onyango.jpg
..........My Sister's Keeper...........
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Badmutha
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 08:33 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;68572 wrote:
And the United States isn't already? Give me a break.


Yes were BANKRUPT......which means its probably not the best time to pass THE LARGEST ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM IN HISTORY.......

Quote:
If you want to look at the best healthcare systems in the world they are all national programs....big surprise. :eek:


Of course.....because you said so. The best....if you dont mind dying while waiting in line.

Quote:
But monetary concerns are more important than the well-being of millions of Americans. This is nothing short of treason.


Every American and ILLEGAL for that matter can walk into any hospital in this country and receive care.......


Quote:
And [SIZE="4"]the United States spends millions of times more on healthcare than any country in the world [/SIZE]and yet we still have much less actual care being received, you can contemplate on why that is but I think it might have something to do with the fact that these insurance companies are FOR-PROFIT businesses. Their goal is not to help people but to make MONEY! The fact of the matter is that the more people that are denied, the more profit these businesses make.


Correct.....so the answer is not MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING......were doing that now......and its not working out to well in case you havent noticed.

Quote:
Correct. And what is the republican solution?

"Let them die, it's more profitable!"


Again......nobody is denied care in this country....

Quote:
Are you suggesting that this moral issue should rest on the shoulder's of one man?


NO.....but Obama is the POSTER CHILD of "spread the wealth" and "My brother's Keeper".....

........and his brother lives in a hut....and poops in a bucket.....



Quote:
AD HOMINEM....

Suppose abe Lincoln owned a slave, should then we abandon this notion of "freedom and equality" because one man didn't live up to his values?



You have nothing to offer but more grandstanding and noise-making. We need a solution and the republicans are going to deny us that solution because it conflicts with their political ideology with scare-tactics.


For the love of Pete.......

The Priorities of Life from the DNC
1. Taxes
2. Taxes
3. Food
4. Shelter
5. Health Insurance

People can afford government raping 25-50% of their hard work.......because they have no choice in the matter.......

............but they cant afford health insurance....how about that......
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kynaston
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 09:51 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Badmutha -If you are bankrupt, it is because you keep spending vast sums on trying to colonise Islamic countries, because you spend twice as much on your inefficient health arrangements as anyone else pays for adequate ones, and (individually) because you admire a con-merchant capitalism and because the Insurance companies are holding down your wages (under the pretence that companies are paying, which they aren't). Stop talking partisan nonsense and look at the facts, mug.
Badmutha
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Oct, 2009 03:30 am
@kynaston,
kynaston;68585 wrote:
Badmutha -If you are bankrupt, it is because you keep spending vast sums on trying to colonise Islamic countries,


Wars come to an end......Democrat black hole social programs do not.......

Quote:
because you spend twice as much on your inefficient health arrangements as anyone else pays for adequate ones,


So the answer is not MORE MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING.......

Quote:
and (individually) because you admire a con-merchant capitalism and because the Insurance companies are holding down your wages (under the pretence that companies are paying, which they aren't). Stop talking partisan nonsense and look at the facts, mug.


The only people holding back this economy...the only people holding down wages....are the bureaucrats in Washington.
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0 Replies
 
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 05:54 am
@thomascrosthwaite,
thomascrosthwaite;68567 wrote:
I agree with everything you said, Kynaston. As I stated before we are fast becomming a backward nation. What is so strange about this is that their religion and their polities do not agree. Jesus was a socialist and would be a democrate if he was living today. www,freewebs.com/thomascrosthwaite/


Why would a socialist be a democrat? The party is filled with Nazis (open and unapologetic Nazis)!
thomascrosthwaite
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 05:55 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
The U.S. isn't bankrup. Here is the reason why. The goverment has complete control of the money. There are almost no end to the ways they can raise money, including just printing it. We all hope it will never come to that. If they wish to they can put traffs on imports or increase taxes. Why not a dime tax on soft dranks. This would hurt no one and would bring in millions of dollars. I concide that this is not a good time for another round of government spending. But some people are spending as much as 25% of their incomes for health insurance. If all of this money were going to the government I am sure that we could in sure everyone. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author
thomascrosthwaite
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 06:13 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
David, so called Christians today are not real Christians. The early Christians were not individuallist. I have a hard time believeing that you have ever read the Bible, becuse it condems everything that you believe in. In Acts 4:32 through the rest of the chapture tells us that they had all things in common and that no one would claim that what he owned was his. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 08:06 am
@Badmutha,
Badmutha;68583 wrote:
Yes were BANKRUPT......which means its probably not the best time to pass THE LARGEST ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM IN HISTORY.......


Actually do you know what the biggest entitlement program in history is?

You might have heard of it, I think it's called.......the Bill of Rights.


Americans are ENTITLED to a fair trial.
Americans are ENTITLED to free speech.
Americans are ENTITLED to education.

....and they are ENTITLED to life saving care.



Quote:
Of course.....because you said so. The best....if you dont mind dying while waiting in line.


No, not because I said so, because that's what all recent studies have determined.


Quote:

Every American and ILLEGAL for that matter can walk into any hospital in this country and receive care.......


This is incorrect. The public Option only applies to legal citizens.





Quote:
Correct.....so the answer is not MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING......were doing that now......and its not working out to well in case you havent noticed.


Actually a national system will save us money by eliminating the need for duplicate paperwork and eliminating the FOR PROFIT business model.



Quote:
Again......nobody is denied care in this country....


Are you sure about that?

Insurance denies amputees limbs - Roanoke.com


Quote:
NO.....but Obama is the POSTER CHILD of "spread the wealth" and "My brother's Keeper".....

........and his brother lives in a hut....and poops in a bucket.....


No....but?

but?

If the answer is NO then your whole point is irrelevant. There is no "but" about it.




Ad hominem:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person" or "argument against the person") is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of a person advocating the premise



Quote:
For the love of Pete.......

The Priorities of Life from the DNC
1. Taxes
2. Taxes
3. Food
4. Shelter
5. Health Insurance


What does this have to do with anything?


what the DNC does is of ZERO RELEVANCE to whether a public option is a good idea or not.

Quote:
People can afford government raping 25-50% of their hard work.......because they have no choice in the matter.......



Again.... relevancy?

Quote:
....but they cant afford health insurance....how about that......
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And so you're opposed to a way that they can afford it?

Please I implore you to provide a solid argument, right now I am left wanting.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 10:47 am
@Badmutha,
Badmutha;68582 wrote:
Right.....4 Trillion dollar budgets arent the problem.....massive Democrat black hole entitlement programs arent the problem.....the ever growing Democrat provided social tit isnt the problem.....


The multi trillion dollar war? Is that what you speak of? No bid government contracts on Cold War era weaponry? Talk about a black hole!

Or perhaps you refer to the billions thrown at BlackXEwater and Halliburton?

Remember, this deficit was on your watch. When your cowboy rode into town, he had a surplus. And can you guess what he did with it?

Quote:
.....the problem is THE US GOVERNMENT GAVE HARD WORKING AMERICANS A BIGGER ALLOWANCE. How dare they.....


That's right! He gave it away in 400 dollar sums. Twice! Oh, but the second time was much more... if you had a lot of kids like a good God-fearing family.

Quote:
MY FREE MARKET AT WORK? PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THIS COUNTRY A FREE MARKET STILL EXISTS?


The health insurance industry. Again, why are you questioning the invisible hand? You complain about their prices, well their prices are due to the free market! Wouldn't telling them what to to be government interference?

Can't afford it? Get a better job, take responsibility, pull yourself up by your belt and get to work! Stop whining and pay! The FREE MARKET decides the price you are to pay, you insolent peasant! Now cough up your tithing!

Quote:
There are 3,000 health insurance companies in this country.....why am I limited to choosing between 9?


How many states do you live in?

Quote:
It seems we might have a different definition of a "Free" market.........


Yes, and yours works only on paper. Wall Street prior to the turn of the year is your definition in motion.

Fifty billion dollars swindled... right under your nose. That's gotta be painful (or cause for celebration depending on what side you are on). You wanted a free market? You wanted deregulation. This is your result.
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 05:32 pm
@thomascrosthwaite,
thomascrosthwaite;68596 wrote:
David, so called Christians today are not real Christians. The early Christians were not individuallist. I have a hard time believeing that you have ever read the Bible, becuse it condems everything that you believe in. In Acts 4:32 through the rest of the chapture tells us that they had all things in common and that no one would claim that what he owned was his. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author


What?

"I have a hard time believeing that you have ever read the Bible, becuse it condems everything that you believe in."

Um...

"In Acts 4:32 through the rest of the chapture tells us that they had all things in common and that no one would claim that what he owned was his.

I'm a socialist, so how does that 'condemn everything that I believe in'? :dunno:
0 Replies
 
Badmutha
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2009 02:11 pm
@thomascrosthwaite,
thomascrosthwaite;68595 wrote:
The U.S. isn't bankrup. Here is the reason why. The goverment has complete control of the money. There are almost no end to the ways they can raise money, including just printing it. We all hope it will never come to that.


Thomas.....may I suggest you brush up on your economics and reality.....when government prints money or sells debt they are STEALING MONEY RIGHT OUT OF YOUR POCKET!

And I also have a news flash for you....straight from Tom Brokaw......

.....WERE PRINTING IT ALREADY......THE PRESSES ARE WORKING OVERTIME.....

A 1.2 Trillion "stimulus" bill........400 BILLION FOR THE INTEREST ALONE......

Quote:
If they wish to they can put traffs on imports or increase taxes.


The universal liberal solution......

Quote:
Why not a dime tax on soft dranks. This would hurt no one and would bring in millions of dollars.


Why not a quarter tax on those....dranks. Why not a dollar?

Heres a crazy idea...............QUIT SPENDING.........

Quote:
I concide that this is not a good time for another round of government spending. But some people are spending as much as 25% of their incomes for health insurance. If all of this money were going to the government I am sure that we could in sure everyone. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author


MEIDCARE IS BANKRUPT........SOCIAL SECURITY IS BANKRUPT.....

......and you want to give more money and control to the very people that already bankrupted the treasury. Unbeliberalble......
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