Real progress in Iraq!

THAT is no enduring, universal, or even practical code of morality. Civilization cannot be built and maintained on such disguised nihilism. Hitler convinced the German nation it needed him to 'survive', and then thrive. Look what he did to the world because they were dumb enough to believe him.

That's what I'm saying -- you, Nump and Scooby are classic whiners and malcontents, but you have absolutely NOTHING realistic or even well thought-out to offer as an alternative to that which you constantly complain about and condemn. YOU ARE NOT THINKING MEN. Your socio-economic, political and historical analysis extends no further than the end of your noses.:thumbdown:

So how does killing of the Jews and gypsies help Hitler survive? In fact it was the opposite, had he not of committed so many unnecessary murders the western allies would've not been so eager to OFF Hitler.

Say you meet someone in the middle of nowhere, you have a gun, they're helpless, no one will ever find out, how is shooting them detrimental to your ability to survive?

the survival of society and communities is dependant upon the number of individuals to bolster the strength of that community, unnecessarily killing people weakens the community you live in and makes survival more difficult. :thumbup:

Why do we need society or communities in the first place?

So how does killing of the Jews and gypsies help Hitler survive? In fact it was the opposite, had he not of committed so many unnecessary murders the western allies would've not been so eager to OFF Hitler.

Well you can go live in the woods by yourself and you tell us how it goes, okay?

You're not looking at it from the pre-WWII German perspective, and again, you don't know much about Hitler. He considered the Jews the archetypal enemies of the Aryan race, Public Enemy Number One, the first military target, whose thorough extermination, coupled with armed expansionism, would re-establish the German Empire. Killing the Jews was Hitler's obsession, and a highly cherished thought on the part of most central and eastern Europeans of the time. The second he opened his mouth, to give his very first speech back in the 1920s, he said one of two things he'd say until the moment of his death -- ".....we have to get rid of the Jews, and unify Germanic peoples across Europe, forever." The Germans loved him for saying these things, and pursuing them through war.

So how does killing of the Jews and gypsies help Hitler survive? In fact it was the opposite, had he not of committed so many unnecessary murders the western allies would've not been so eager to OFF Hitler.

Also, why did this motivate the allies to go after Hitler?

...and what does that have to do with anything i've said? :dunno:

Killing the Jews was central to Hitler's sense of Germanic survival. You said your morality stems from survivalism. I'm arguing that that isn't a sound basis for any genuinely human system of morality. It won't support Civilization, for example. It won't sustain nations as they evolve over long periods. It's insufficient. Try to keep up. :no:

the survival of society and communities is dependant upon the number of individuals to bolster the strength of that community, unnecessarily killing people weakens the community you live in and makes survival more difficult. :thumbup:

The jews were not a threat to much of anyone's survival, Hitler killed the jews for "ethnic cleansing" and hatred.

That's your perspective. He considered them a direct threat to the Reich. As a group, they did tend to possess considerable power. My point is that 'survival' is an ultra-primitive, dangerously subjective basis upon which to construct any system of morality. It could justify all sorts of rotten behavior, depending on the intrinsic qualities of the people involved. :no:

Because he was a threat.

Yeah, but if so, why would killing Jews and Gypsies motivate them further? If your survival theory is correct, this would make no difference, but it did, in the real world. Why should any of them care what happens to foreign Jews? It doesn't affect their chances of survival.

All morals are based on survival even your bible is based on survival.

Why were gays looked down upon in ancient times? because they hinder a society's ability to reproduce weakening the society.

Murder? Lowered the population of a society weakening it.

Lying? made information unreliable also weakening society.

etc....

I think we've had this conversation before...

same questions, same answers. I'll dig up the thread again if you'd like.

Jewish success in society was something Hitler and the Nazis considered very threatening. They saw it as a great subversive force, undercutting the foundations of the Reich, slowly overtaking them from within. Goebbels bragged openly at rallies in the late 1930s, early 1940s, of the degree to which the Germans had reclaimed their society from Jewish influence. Prior to the rise of Nazism, Jews were plentiful and prominent in all major professional enterprises in Germany. Within months after Nazi electoral success in 1933, THEY WERE ALL GONE. Yes.........their extermination was seen as vital to the survival of the German nation.

How do I know that in your world, FF, you wouldn't define 'survival' as the extermination of Christians? Sorry. You're 'morality' makes me reach for firepower, just to be safe. :no: