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Just being a good person is not good enough. You also need to believe.

 
 
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 01:09 am
Being a good person - loving others, looking after this planet, helping the needy, eschewing violence, lies, hurtful behavior - is good enough if you are an atheist.

However to be a good Christian or Muslim, it is not good enough to be just a good person. You need first and foremost, before even thinking of being a good person, to acknowledge Jesus as your lord and saviour or Allah as your only God with Mohammed as his Messenger depending on which one of the two Salvation Clubs you wish to join.

Being good per se, is not good enough.

So if you are a good , moral person doing no harm to anyone and leading your own life in a peaceful manner BUT you do not believe in their god, you are destined to hell according to the christians and the muslims.

What can be more irrational than such a doctrine? Or more unfriendly and offensive to other cultures?

Please think about this.
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rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 08:37 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43337 wrote:
Being a good person - loving others, looking after this planet, helping the needy, eschewing violence, lies, hurtful behavior - is good enough if you are an atheist.

However to be a good Christian or Muslim, it is not good enough to be just a good person. You need first and foremost, before even thinking of being a good person, to acknowledge Jesus as your lord and saviour or Allah as your only God with Mohammed as his Messenger depending on which one of the two Salvation Clubs you wish to join.

Being good per se, is not good enough.

So if you are a good , moral person doing no harm to anyone and leading your own life in a peaceful manner BUT you do not believe in their god, you are destined to hell according to the christians and the muslims.

What can be more irrational than such a doctrine? Or more unfriendly and offensive to other cultures?

Please think about this.



Lets add that you can be immoral, break the law, and look out only for yourself... as long as YOU BELIEVE, and repent.

So George does great things for the world and is a good person, goes to hell. and John destroys the world, and says "im sorry" and goes to heaven.

TO ALL THE BIBLE THUMPERS, that is how your god works? Guess what, you all can keep him. Even people like Ted Bundy apologized (and meant it)
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 08:56 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43337 wrote:
Being a good person - loving others, looking after this planet, helping the needy, eschewing violence, lies, hurtful behavior - is good enough if you are an atheist.

However to be a good Christian or Muslim, it is not good enough to be just a good person. You need first and foremost, before even thinking of being a good person, to acknowledge Jesus as your lord and saviour or Allah as your only God with Mohammed as his Messenger depending on which one of the two Salvation Clubs you wish to join.

Being good per se, is not good enough.

So if you are a good , moral person doing no harm to anyone and leading your own life in a peaceful manner BUT you do not believe in their god, you are destined to hell according to the christians and the muslims.

What can be more irrational than such a doctrine? Or more unfriendly and offensive to other cultures?

Please think about this.


It is only irrational because you want it your way. Yet God has revealed another way which you reject. If you actually took the time to seek God He would reveal Himself to you. Yet you want it your way so that day may never come. And that's why Jesus makes the statement, "how shall they neglect so great a salvation ?" God sees the whole human race as evil, only God's blood sacrifice can cover that evil, yet this world wants it their way. Salvation is not about what you do for mother earht, it's about what you do with the God that created it.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 09:19 am
@Adam Bing,
This is a doctrine started by the catholic church and continued by many prodestants after reformation.

No it's not okay to just have a relationship with God and live as an example to others, you need to show up in church and agree with the tings we tell you. We wouldn't want you drawing your own conclusions, besides we need to be able to keep an eye on you.
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Tulip cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 12:21 pm
@Adam Bing,
I think you can be a great person and an aethiest, the world and history is full of them...l believe that Plato, certainly Aristole, Einstein, were all aetheists. And they were are great contributors to the world and great people.
However, when you merge great intellect with the spirit then magic happens! An example is Sir Issac Newton.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 04:09 pm
@Tulip cv,
Tulip;43382 wrote:
I think you can be a great person and an aethiest, the world and history is full of them...l believe that Plato, certainly Aristole, Einstein, were all aetheists. And they were are great contributors to the world and great people.
However, when you merge great intellect with the spirit then magic happens! An example is Sir Issac Newton.


I believe that to, but your being a great person here on earth is only good for an earthly existance. The surprise comes when you learn there really is a God, and you being a great person here on earth was not enought for a hevenly existance.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 08:20 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43394 wrote:
I believe that to, but your being a great person here on earth is only good for an earthly existance. The surprise comes when you learn there really is a God, and you being a great person here on earth was not enought for a hevenly existance.


That is precisely my point. I am glad Mr.Campbell agrees with me.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 03:27 am
@Adam Bing,
I've read it in the Bible perhaps a hundred times, but this is the first time this actually got me as strange, so the purpose of life is nothing other than the act of believeing in God?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 03:54 am
@markx15,
markx15;43439 wrote:
I've read it in the Bible perhaps a hundred times, but this is the first time this actually got me as strange, so the purpose of life is nothing other than the act of believeing in God?


Yes. That is the primary purpose. Being a good person comes second. Now tell me, are you willing to be baptized and to consider Jesus as your personal lord and saviour?

The same holds true for their cousins at the other end of the monotheist spectrum. You'll first and foremost have to surrender to Allah and acknowledge Mohammed to be his messenger before you attempt to do good.

Doing good for the sake of being good, is no good.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 05:57 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43440 wrote:
Yes. That is the primary purpose. Being a good person comes second. Now tell me, are you willing to be baptized and to consider Jesus as your personal lord and saviour?

The same holds true for their cousins at the other end of the monotheist spectrum. You'll first and foremost have to surrender to Allah and acknowledge Mohammed to be his messenger before you attempt to do good.

Doing good for the sake of being good, is no good.


Being good is what Christians strive for, and we do this to show are love for Christ, yet if we were not Christians, doing good is still what humankind should strive for. However, the Bible tells us that no flesh shall be justified by the works of the law. Entrance into heaven requires prefection, a life that is void of any sin. No human has ever lived such a perfect life except one. Salvation is a free gift that came at a very high price. The God of the Bible tells us, that are best works before the throne of God are nothing more than filthy rags. And the whole purpose of the Scriptures was to point out that man will never be good enought to earn salvation, yet if we accept Jesus Christ Blood Sacrifice, God would pardon us from all sin. That is the main message of the Bible.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 09:30 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43442 wrote:
Being good is what Christians strive for, and we do this to show are love for Christ, yet if we were not Christians, doing good is still what humankind should strive for. However, the Bible tells us that no flesh shall be justified by the works of the law. Entrance into heaven requires prefection, a life that is void of any sin. No human has ever lived such a perfect life except one. Salvation is a free gift that came at a very high price. The God of the Bible tells us, that are best works before the throne of God are nothing more than filthy rags. And the whole purpose of the Scriptures was to point out that man will never be good enought to earn salvation, yet if we accept Jesus Christ Blood Sacrifice, God would pardon us from all sin. That is the main message of the Bible.


Mr.Campbell, if I am a good person, never lies, never cheats, never harms aliving soul, gives huge chunks of his income to charity, helps people, animals, leads a blameless life, never drinks alcohol, or gambles or indulges in vice. If I work hard and live frugually, will I go to heaven?
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 01:43 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43459 wrote:
Mr.Campbell, if I am a good person, never lies, never cheats, never harms aliving soul, gives huge chunks of his income to charity, helps people, animals, leads a blameless life, never drinks alcohol, or gambles or indulges in vice. If I work hard and live frugually, will I go to heaven?


NO, because without being born again in Christ, even one small sin will bar entrance into God's Kingdom. You see, only those who are perfect without spot will have everlasting life. And that gift is offered to everyone, yet most people will reject His gift, and they will reject it because it's Gods way, and not theirs. And what that reveals to God is their selfish nature, because it is all about them, and their own will. Those who love God, will acknowledge His gift of salvation, and they will accept it.
Tulip cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 05:32 pm
@Adam Bing,
It is interesting, you both believe more in yourself and your own opinion than you do about anything related to God. If you believed in God and surrendered to his will, rather than your own, then you would be accepting, and humble, and understand that your thoughts mean nothing.
Speaking your own views is not surrender. Pushing your views is not surrender, it is your ego believing it's own viewpoint.
On earth, throughout the ages, avators existed in all countries, in all cultures, within and without of all languages, some where known by the world and some where not known by the world, but avators, such as Jesus, were not just sent exclusively for a select group, just as heaven is not just for a selected group.
Begin with yourself, that is a lifetime of work, and surrender.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 07:24 pm
@Adam Bing,
"Just being a good person is not good enough. You also need to believe."

And WORK. You have to get out there and try to civilize this barbarous world in the name of Christ and Christian Civilization. That's right. Just believing isn't good enough. Re-read the Book of James. GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR THE CHRISTIAN WEST.:headbang:
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Oct, 2007 08:47 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43484 wrote:
NO, because without being born again in Christ, even one small sin will bar entrance into God's Kingdom. You see, only those who are perfect without spot will have everlasting life. And that gift is offered to everyone, yet most people will reject His gift, and they will reject it because it's Gods way, and not theirs. And what that reveals to God is their selfish nature, because it is all about them, and their own will. Those who love God, will acknowledge His gift of salvation, and they will accept it.


"No" is good enough Mr.Campbell.
0 Replies
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 04:19 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;43484 wrote:
NO, because without being born again in Christ, even one small sin will bar entrance into God's Kingdom. You see, only those who are perfect without spot will have everlasting life. And that gift is offered to everyone, yet most people will reject His gift, and they will reject it because it's Gods way, and not theirs. And what that reveals to God is their selfish nature, because it is all about them, and their own will. Those who love God, will acknowledge His gift of salvation, and they will accept it.


NO may be enough for you Adam. For me this is exactly why Religous Fundamentalists disgust me, sorry but they do. The holier than though attitude sticks in my throat like a pineapple. If there is a god why is there conditions for his love and entry into the kingdom of god.

Does a parent make conditions on their children for loving them, of course not, every bloody kid in the world would be in therapy with trust issues.
If God is the Father why has he put conditions that you need to aspire to in order for you to enter the eternal life.

So I lead the most pure life, yet I once masterbated, guess what son your going to hell. I tell you what If that is how it played I would sooner go to hell than be up there with an idiot like that.

Answer me this.

If the Devil so bad why is he the one that punishes the sinners. If god is so good Why does he let people who rape and murder peopel entry into the Kingdom of heaven if they say they are sorry.

For me the supernatural being doing good here is the Devil, he is punidhing people.

God is the one letting murderers and rapists into heaven if they say sorry and repent.

I know the one I think is doing a good job if they existed.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 04:37 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;43531 wrote:
NO may be enough for you Adam. For me this is exactly why Religous Fundamentalists disgust me, sorry but they do. The holier than though attitude sticks in my throat like a pineapple. If there is a god why is there conditions for his love and entry into the kingdom of god.

Does a parent make conditions on their children for loving them, of course not, every bloody kid in the world would be in therapy with trust issues.
If God is the Father why has he put conditions that you need to aspire to in order for you to enter the eternal life.

So I lead the most pure life, yet I once masterbated, guess what son your going to hell. I tell you what If that is how it played I would sooner go to hell than be up there with an idiot like that.

Answer me this.

If the Devil so bad why is he the one that punishes the sinners. If god is so good Why does he let people who rape and murder peopel entry into the Kingdom of heaven if they say they are sorry.

For me the supernatural being doing good here is the Devil, he is punidhing people.

God is the one letting murderers and rapists into heaven if they say sorry and repent.

I know the one I think is doing a good job if they existed.


N, the "No" is enough to condemn Christianity and Islam conclusively.

Why would any thinking person agree with such an ideology? Just think. You are being told that being good is not good enough. That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard the first time I heard it.

People intuitively know it is wrong and that religion is wrong to ask that. Which is why there has been such a massive drop in church attendance in your own country. Europeans almost to a man are against this kind of thinking.

Americans too have had enough of this nonsense and the religious right is fast losing ground. Its only a matter of time.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 04:39 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43535 wrote:
N, the "No" is enough to condemn Christianity and Islam conclusively.

Why would any thinking person agree with such an ideology? Just think. You are being told that being good is not good enough. That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard the first time I heard it.

People intuitively know it is wrong and that religion is wrong to ask that. Which is why there has been such a massive drop in church attendance in your own country. Europeans almost to a man are against this kind of thinking.

Americans too have had enough of this nonsense and the religious right is fast losing ground. Its only a matter of time.


Ahh, I misinterpreted you response.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 04:47 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;43536 wrote:
Ahh, I misinterpreted you response.


The fact is that accoRding to the Bible being good is not good enough. It is critical to note that this is not Mr.Campbell's personal viewpoint. He is faithfully conveying to us, the core message in the Bible: Goodness is no good if you do not also sign over your complete and unequivocal obedience.

We need this message , duly certified by a Biblical expert like Mr.Campbell. Now I can take it to the other innocent bystanders and let them better undrstand the message when it is delivered to them by some scheming missionary after their souls.

This is the weak link in biblical thought that needs to be used to expose it's irrelevance in an ethical society. We require our children to be good for the sake of being good and not because there is a boogy man watching their behavior. This is a very important lesson to the children. I actually have used the bible to make this point and the kids grasp it easily: BE GOOD BECAUSE YOU ARE GOOD AND NOT BECAUSE SOME GOD WANTS YOU TO BE GOOD.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Oct, 2007 06:55 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;43537 wrote:
The fact is that accoRding to the Bible being good is not good enough. It is critical to note that this is not Mr.Campbell's personal viewpoint. He is faithfully conveying to us, the core message in the Bible: Goodness is no good if you do not also sign over your complete and unequivocal obedience.

We need this message , duly certified by a Biblical expert like Mr.Campbell. Now I can take it to the other innocent bystanders and let them better undrstand the message when it is delivered to them by some scheming missionary after their souls.

This is the weak link in biblical thought that needs to be used to expose it's irrelevance in an ethical society. We require our children to be good for the sake of being good and not because there is a boogy man watching their behavior. This is a very important lesson to the children. I actually have used the bible to make this point and the kids grasp it easily: BE GOOD BECAUSE YOU ARE GOOD AND NOT BECAUSE SOME GOD WANTS YOU TO BE GOOD.



Exactly, makes you bloody sick doesn't it.

We are brow beaten into believing the only way we can lead a good life is by following the Ten Commandments. Which of course is complete and utter rubbish.

Richard Dawkins makes and excellent case in his book The God Delusion that it is through evolution and the passing of traits from generation to generation that over a long period of time the actual survival of our species depends upon our ability for compassion and defending our offrspring and being able to live together in harmony is an integral part maintaining our species.

It has nothing to do with a God and everything to with survival of the species.
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