History is progressive

I was raised in a fundalimentalist church in the backwoods of Tennessee, where it was against the law to teach evolution at that time. What these people didn't know that people could become athiest by studing the Bible. Dan Barker and Farrel Till are two former hell fare and brimstone preachers, who attended Bible colleges and are now outspoken atheists. These men were not converted in science classes. Rather, by studying the Bible they became aware that it contains many contridictions.

What the *** does this have to do with the topic... :lame:

???

That [SIZE="3"]IS[/SIZE] the topic.

Do you mean title? In which case he has listed a number of progressive advancements throughout history. What is there not to get?

While most people are aware of this, they are likely some who are not. Those who would disagree would argue that people no longer repect authority or love their families or country.

Revolution is both technolical and social. More and more of the Earth population are living longer and better than ever before. The life span of the average American is 10 years longer than in the early 1950s. An AfrroAmerican president was unthinkable at that time and although many blacks still lack opportunity, we have come a long ways.

The last 50 years have seen a remarkable decline in colonialism and imperialism, the decline of capital punishment and the advancement of women and gay rights. According to Farred Zakaria there is now no major military competition among the Worlds great powers. [ Recall the colonial conquests we studyed when we were children. ] And in the last three decades the number of people dying as a result of political violence has dropped steeply. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

You mention gaining gay rights as an advancement yet the Romans and the Greek homosexuals had rights, had marriages and it was actually a common norm in those societies. It was only lost with the rise of Christianity. Also we have to lower the standard of 'major military competition' because there is little left to compete over. The colonial conquests were only possible because there were two freaking continents of bare lands, allowing room for competition. However, the tables have flipped... What land is there to compete over anymore? In this day in age we compete technologically and economically yet we also do compete militarily, recall the cold war, world war II, world war I, we must not forget that these things are not long gone... It has not been very long since the world wars which were some of the most militarily active years in HISTORY. Yet, you said we have seen a decline in imperialism in the past 50 years? How about the past hundred? You are putting this on a very small scale, try imagining what is going to happen 50 years from now.

There was very little actual homosexuality in Greek scoiety, even less so in Roman. Those were where truly homosexual or maintained man-man relationships outside of the elderly man bringing a boy into manhood, were frowned upon and not the norm.

A personal story about people becoming atheist because they read they bible is quite tangent from noticing a supposed decrease in imperialism and capitol punishment.

I was raised in a fundalimentalist church in the backwoods of Tennessee, where it was against the law to teach evolution at that time. What these people didn't know that people could become athiest by studing the Bible. Dan Barker and Farrel Till are two former hell fare and brimstone preachers, who attended Bible colleges and are now outspoken atheists. These men were not converted in science classes. Rather, by studying the Bible they became aware that it contains many contridictions.

Really??? You even have Hadrian who was a Roman Emperor and he was gay. The Greek and Roman cultures, to my understanding, were highly promiscuous and they didn't care about the gender of the partner.

Greek Homosexuality
Roman Homosexuality

I realize the Roman one has "unverified information" but that is just bits and pieces, the Greek page is solid.

P.S. Forgot about Straton of Sardis, the Poet.

Everything else in your Greek link is what I said, Older man to Younger boy was the norm. Outside of that it was not.

But that is not what you said.


GROUCH: "There was very little actual homosexuality in Greek society."

Yes FF, they didn't actually *** each other in the ass. They rubbed in between thighs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercrural_sex

Intercrural intercourse (termed diamerizein, "to do it between the thighs") was common in the Ancient Greek system of pederasty, where anal sex was considered demeaning to the receiving partner. The historian K.J. Dover wrote about this extensively in his book Greek Homosexuality (1977), from which current theories on the subject of Greek male-male sexuality are largely derived.[5] Joan Roughgarden refers to standing face-to-face intercrural intercourse as the "gay male missionary position" of ancient Greece in a section of her recent book Evolution's Rainbow that draws heavily on Dover.[6]

And then I also said...

Those were where truly homosexual or maintained man-man relationships outside of the elderly man bringing a boy into manhood, were frowned upon and not the norm.

You always miss so much, slow down, take your time.

Both of which are homosexual.

:thumbup:

Read a little deeper in to your own links.

Given the importance in Greek society of cultivating the masculinity of the adult male and the perceived feminizing effect of being the passive partner, relations between adult men of comparable social status were considered highly problematic, and usually associated with social stigma. However, examples of such couples are occasionally found in the historical record.

Everything else in your Greek link is what I said, Older man to Younger boy was the norm. Outside of that it was not.

Moral opinions

Above all, pederasty was condemned in the Republican era and dismissed as a sign of an effeminate Greek lifestyle. In the mid Republic homosexual acts were widely accepted, if the active partner was a Roman, and the passive partner a slave or non-Roman. Deviations from this pattern were morally condemned, but apparently had few legal consequences. Martial and Plautus describe a wide range of homosexual behaviors, in part to poke fun at them like other minor standard deviations, but without too much real moralizing. On the other hand, there is also from the year 108 an indictment against C. Vibius Maximus, a Roman officer in Egypt who had a sexual relationship with a young nobleman.

Juvenal condemned many forms of male homosexuality, and especially laments Roman men of high birth who show a moral front but secretly took the passive role. He found men who openly played the passive role pitiful but at least honest, and praised true love found by a man for a boy.[16] Public speeches usually condemned all forms of homosexuality. When Julius Caesar conqueror held office in Macedon, he was rumoured to have had a relationship with the local Nicomedes and played the passive role but, though this damaged his reputation, it apparently had no legal consequences. [17] The emperor Hadrian had a relationship with the younger Antinous, although this was also criticized but not significant enough to prevent him plunging the empire into mourning following the unexpected death of Antinous in 130.

Straton described many sexual position between multiple men and multiple women or just men and just women which were'nt 'rubbing between the thighs'. I'll post a link once I find one, that stuff is hard to find. And regardless of what age groups it was with homosexuality was rampant in the empires, I never specified what type of homosexuality.

Rampant? Hardly.