Patriot Act DOES harm Citizens

Just a few thoughts:

1. This is not necessarily over. This ruling was handed down by a US District judge, so the if the government wishes, the verdict may be appealed. It?s been a while, but I believe the next step is to appeal to the appropriate circuit court, and then to the Supreme Court. So, this isn?t a done deal.

2. The referenced article is very sketchy on details, but it does not appear that this case hinges on unconstitutionality of existing law, but rather on sloppy investigative work by the FBI. The fact that the FBI was sloppy does not even register a twitch on my internal surprise-o-meter. If you were to suggest that the FBI should be dismantled and we should start over, you would find in me a potentially surprising ally. It appears from the article that a legal warrant, on the surface meeting constitutional requirements where surveillance of US persons is concerned. Given fingerprint evidence of the plaintiff?s involvement, most judges, not aware that the evidence was sloppy, would have issued the warrant. However, on learning that the evidence was problematic, the warrant was overturned, and all evidence gathered as a result of that warrant is then considered ?fruit of the forbidden tree.? This is what happened, and it was appropriate.

3. Unless I am mistaken, what you will see is a government appeal on the constitutionality ruling. Since this occurred in a District Court in Oregon, the next step is an appeal to the appropriate Circuit Court of Appeals, which in this case I believe may be the 9th Circuit Court. Given their history, it is unlikely that they will overturn the decision, leading to an appeal to the Supreme Court. Given their current makeup, it is highly likely that this decision will be overturned there. Like it or not, if that happens, the PATRIOT Act is constitutional. They can be stupid, they can be wrong. But, constitutionally, the SCOTUS can never hand down an unconstitutional decision.

They haven't appealed it though, and SCOTUS hasn't ruled it unconstitutional. Victory for liberty is all this is, I'd think you'd be on board with that.

Oh, and the government has made no statements that they desire an appeal, and yes, the judge DID rule searches under PATRIOT unconstitutional. Until a superior court rules otherwise, the government can take a hike.

So I guess we should just give up and let anyone that wants this country have it....

We already have.

It's funny, I've seen a couple forums where some people actually attacked the judge as being too liberal because she called a spade a spade, it just happened to be a spade they supported.

And that the sad part,I could sue the VA, but that wouldn't help anyone, but the lawyer.

We've given up so much in this country because of fear that it's... well... frightening. Things like the PATRIOT Act (The last thing dubbed Patriot by the gov't was a missile... I don't wanna live under one of those either) and all the goodies you've heard about warrantless wiretaps and searches, secret prisons, torture, and the like make me wonder what country I am in again.

Why are worried about these terrorists taking away our freedoms when we gladly give them up on a silver platter, never to be seen again?

This is America. Some things should NEVER change, no matter the enemy we face.

Km chugh is right this will be appealed.

On what legal grounds? Having a fingerprint is enough maybe to get a warrant, but it appears it is not enough to do warrantless search and seizures. The 4th is quite clear, and the PATRIOT Act is trying to muddy it up.

92 b

You obviously are a virgin to the mess our legal system is. Exxon has never paid off on the mess they made in Alaska , that's right after 20 years they appealed as recently as may 2007 and will keep appealing.

Exxon Valdez oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia scroll down to litigation to get the story of the legal mess.

And did you know that no law exists that puts a time limit on how long a judge can take to rule on a case. Thats right forget speedy justice. I sued a county for over taxing my clients one time . Took 10 grand out of my own pocket 13 years ago and that was a lot of money back then and sued for what was obviously tax collection that did not follow the codes. they were collecting way too much from new homeowners. The auditor and clerk of court fell all over themselves blaming each other for the wrong doing . Almost got in a fist fight in court blaming the over taxation on each other. No brainer right I won. Nope the judge just never ruled on the case. if he had at least ruled against me I could have moved it on to the state supreme court. But he never ruled. My attorneys and I tried everything to get him to rule. And in the mean time I found out from other attorneys that they had cases like mine that had never been ruled on and were 8-12 years old. Just prior to the judge retiring 6 years after my case was heard I got a notice in the mail that due to the length of time since the judge had heard the case he did not feel qualified to rule on the case . Too much time had passed he said . As he was retiring I was free to refile the suit and have the new civil court judge hear it. .... Forget it. The old creep made a pass at me in his chambers one time. But bet you anything even had I done him , he would never have ruled. Creep. I should have sued him for harassment , but that would have just been another waste of money in a heavily Republican county and state. They take care of their own. I registered independent after that!
Believe me the legal system in this country has as many loop holes for the powerful as does our tax code. If they want this case to go away it will. Evidently they got a judge willing to make a statement about the Patriot act. Good for him. But you can bet collecting the money will be another matter because that would validate the verdict and set precedent.

The case will get kicked up above this judges pay grade , and disappear in the legal system.

And you can bet this judge will never make US attorney under the Bush administration.

I did not mean anything at all by the virgin comment 92B

In fact at first I had written "you obviously know nothing about the legal system in this country." Thought that sounded rude and condescending and on a whim changed it to virgin sounded better. Sorry if virgin upset you I meant nothing by it , it was just the term I picked. Like I am a virgin to installing car carburetors. because I have never even attempted to work on a car engine.

I am not a lawyer , I have no idea on what grounds they will appeal. But I am very familiar with the loop holes and wrangling that goes on in the legal system so I know a appeal will happen.

Apparently the terminology I used so upset you that you missed the point of my post. The powerful elite in this county and the government can do just about anything they want to do including manipulating the courts.

Now 92B will you apologize to me when the appeal happens? Since it seems to be a big deal to you?

IF the ruling is over turned on appeal yes, I will. I don't think that it will be since the incident is already seen as an embarrassment to the agency, and they settled in a suit.

Ah when did overturned come into play?

I thought we were talking about if it would be appealed. Which it will most certainly be appealed. And from there lost I would imagine or hung up in court for years at the very least.

We've given up so much in this country because of fear that it's... well... frightening. Things like the PATRIOT Act (The last thing dubbed Patriot by the gov't was a missile... I don't wanna live under one of those either) and all the goodies you've heard about warrantless wiretaps and searches, secret prisons, torture, and the like make me wonder what country I am in again.

Why are worried about these terrorists taking away our freedoms when we gladly give them up on a silver platter, never to be seen again?

This is America. Some things should NEVER change, no matter the enemy we face.