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A Step Closer To Martial Law

 
 
RedOct
 
Reply Mon 12 Nov, 2007 08:30 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,656 • Replies: 83
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Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Nov, 2007 03:41 pm
@RedOct,
Source please?
Can you cite this as truth?
Quote:
...accomplished in the dead of night
isn't true, is it? A law comes to the President for his signature after a long process including drafts of the bill, committee hearings, debate in both houses of Congress, and scrutiny by many.

Halliburton does have the contract mentioned in your post, but if the government is awarding the contract by bids ( which is true according to the articles I have read), they are the only bidder, and who else could possibly be able to do that job?
klyph
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2007 03:28 am
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;45213 wrote:
Source please?
Can you cite this as truth?
isn't true, is it? A law comes to the President for his signature after a long process including drafts of the bill, committee hearings, debate in both houses of Congress, and scrutiny by many.

Halliburton does have the contract mentioned in your post, but if the government is awarding the contract by bids ( which is true according to the articles I have read), they are the only bidder, and who else could possibly be able to do that job?


Have you taken into consideration what "that job" entails. This is an unbalanced unchecked expansion of executive power. One step closer to dictatorship. According to the Constitution, the federal govt should have no military power, and citizen led, state controlled militias should be our only armed forces to repel foreign invasions. What this does is give power over our already unconstitutional federal military and state militias (which were unconstitutionally federalized in WW2) to the executive branch without any enforceable restrictions worded specifically to control dissenters. Isn't America supposed to be a place where you can openly criticize the govt. and the people have the power to enforce changes to that govt? Do you realize how quickly we are sliding away from true democracy under the guise of "Homeland Security"?
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 02:42 pm
@RedOct,
The second video could as easily be narrated to show the intended purpose of the renovations as a repair facility for train equipment. I have experience in chemical plants and refineries in which just such remodeling is done on an on-going basis, and I don't see some sinister purposes.
I think it is a stretch to say that facility is being prepared as a "concentration camp".
0 Replies
 
hatukazi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 02:56 pm


I read this article and now once again, I'm p*ssed about something I have no control over.

If Dick Cheney has even ONE share of stock in Halliburton, isn't it illegal for him to profit from his elected position?

I know the war is being staged for the profit of the few, and I am sick of reading about it.

What can be DONE?
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 07:10 pm
@hatukazi,
hatukazi;45654 wrote:
I read this article and now once again, I'm p*ssed about something I have no control over.

If Dick Cheney has even ONE share of stock in Halliburton, isn't it illegal for him to profit from his elected position?

I know the war is being staged for the profit of the few, and I am sick of reading about it.

What can be DONE?


Not only is Halliburton profiting from our war, they moved to Dubai so they do not have to pay tax's. Pretty cool huh? Our government gives them billions, and they relocate to a foreign country so they don't have to give taxpayers back any of the money, and there fore make MORE profits at our expense.

What you can do is make sure you vote in the republican primary for Ron Paul. He is the ONLY true anti-war candidate, and not a sockpuppet for big business, or special interest.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 07:13 pm
@RedOct,
When they came for the Jews, I did nothing.
When they came for gays, I did nothing.
When they came for me, I joined them.:rollinglaugh::dance2::Pickle:
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 07:38 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;45676 wrote:
When they came for the Jews, I did nothing.
When they came for gays, I did nothing.
When they came for me, I joined them.:rollinglaugh::dance2::Pickle:



Sorry to hear you lived such a meaningless life.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 07:54 pm
@92b16vx,
For one of my classes i took, one of the things i did was makes a list of steps to take in order to take over the world. Currently the US has completed:

7 out of 11 of those steps!

thats some scary ****!
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 07:57 pm
@RedOct,
Care to list those steps and back up what you say?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 08:15 pm
@Curmudgeon,
1. Gain popular support
2. become president
3. invent an enemy
4. get attacked
5.take away civil liberties/privacy
6. form an alliance
7. invade/"liberate" a country
8. weaken economy of enemy nations
9. set up puppet government in invaded nation(s)
10. Declare martial law
11. anex/unite countries of entire region
12. start WW3 with remainder nations and win!


*Sorry it was 12 steps not 11
0 Replies
 
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 08:16 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;45690 wrote:
Care to list those steps and back up what you say?


Have you ever read, or heard Naomi Wolf?

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a state of national shock. Less than six weeks later, on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a "global war" against a "global caliphate" intending to "wipe out civilisation". There have been other times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented: all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is defined as open-ended in time and without national boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battlefield. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no defined end."

Creating a terrifying threat - hydra-like, secretive, evil - is an old trick. It can, like Hitler's invocation of a communist threat to the nation's security, be based on actual events (one Wisconsin academic has faced calls for his dismissal because he noted, among other things, that the alleged communist arson, the Reichstag fire of February 1933, was swiftly followed in Nazi Germany by passage of the Enabling Act, which replaced constitutional law with an open-ended state of emergency). Or the terrifying threat can be based, like the National Socialist evocation of the "global conspiracy of world Jewry", on myth.

It is not that global Islamist terrorism is not a severe danger; of course it is. I am arguing rather that the language used to convey the nature of the threat is different in a country such as Spain - which has also suffered violent terrorist attacks - than it is in America. Spanish citizens know that they face a grave security threat; what we as American citizens believe is that we are potentially threatened with the end of civilisation as we know it. Of course, this makes us more willing to accept restrictions on our freedoms.

2. Create a gulag3. Develop a thug caste

When leaders who seek what I call a "fascist shift" want to close down an open society, they send paramilitary groups of scary young men out to terrorise citizens. The Blackshirts roamed the Italian countryside beating up communists; the Brownshirts staged violent rallies throughout Germany. This paramilitary force is especially important in a democracy: you need citizens to fear thug violence and so you need thugs who are free from prosecution.

The years following 9/11 have proved a bonanza for America's security contractors, with the Bush administration outsourcing areas of work that traditionally fell to the US military. In the process, contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars have been issued for security work by mercenaries at home and abroad. In Iraq, some of these contract operatives have been accused of involvement in torturing prisoners, harassing journalists and firing on Iraqi civilians. Under Order 17, issued to regulate contractors in Iraq by the one-time US administrator in Baghdad, Paul Bremer, these contractors are immune from prosecution

Yes, but that is in Iraq, you could argue; however, after Hurricane Katrina, the Department of Homeland Security hired and deployed hundreds of armed private security guards in New Orleans. The investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill interviewed one unnamed guard who reported having fired on unarmed civilians in the city. It was a natural disaster that underlay that episode - but the administration's endless war on terror means ongoing scope for what are in effect privately contracted armies to take on crisis and emergency management at home in US cities.

Thugs in America? Groups of angry young Republican men, dressed in identical shirts and trousers, menaced poll workers counting the votes in Florida in 2000. If you are reading history, you can imagine that there can be a need for "public order" on the next election day. Say there are protests, or a threat, on the day of an election; history would not rule out the presence of a private security firm at a polling station "to restore public order".

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist East Germany, in communist China - in every closed society - secret police spy on ordinary people and encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under surveillance to convince a majority that they themselves were being watched.

In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny.

In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as being about "national security"; the true function is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their activism and dissent.

5. Harass citizens' groups

The fifth thing you do is related to step four - you infiltrate and harass citizens' groups. It can be trivial: a church in Pasadena, whose minister preached that Jesus was in favour of peace, found itself being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service, while churches that got Republicans out to vote, which is equally illegal under US tax law, have been left alone.

Other harassment is more serious: the American Civil Liberties Union reports that thousands of ordinary American anti-war, environmental and other groups have been infiltrated by agents: a secret Pentagon database includes more than four dozen peaceful anti-war meetings, rallies or marches by American citizens in its category of 1,500 "suspicious incidents". The equally secret Counterintelligence Field Activity (Cifa) agency of the Department of Defense has been gathering information about domestic organisations engaged in peaceful political activities: Cifa is supposed to track "potential terrorist threats" as it watches ordinary US citizen activists. A little-noticed new law has redefined activism such as animal rights protests as "terrorism". So the definition of "terrorist" slowly expands to include the opposition.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release7. Target key individuals

Threaten civil servants, artists and academics with job loss if they don't toe the line. Mussolini went after the rectors of state universities who did not conform to the fascist line; so did Joseph Goebbels, who purged academics who were not pro-Nazi; so did Chile's Augusto Pinochet; so does the Chinese communist Politburo in punishing pro-democracy students and professors.

Academe is a tinderbox of activism, so those seeking a fascist shift punish academics and students with professional loss if they do not "coordinate", in Goebbels' term, ideologically. Since civil servants are the sector of society most vulnerable to being fired by a given regime, they are also a group that fascists typically "coordinate" early on: the Reich Law for the Re-establishment of a Professional Civil Service was passed on April 7 1933.

Bush supporters in state legislatures in several states put pressure on regents at state universities to penalise or fire academics who have been critical of the administration. As for civil servants, the Bush administration has derailed the career of one military lawyer who spoke up for fair trials for detainees, while an administration official publicly intimidated the law firms that represent detainees pro bono by threatening to call for their major corporate clients to boycott them.

Elsewhere, a CIA contract worker who said in a closed blog that "waterboarding is torture" was stripped of the security clearance she needed in order to do her job.

Most recently, the administration purged eight US attorneys for what looks like insufficient political loyalty. When Goebbels purged the civil service in April 1933, attorneys were "coordinated" too, a step that eased the way of the increasingly brutal laws to follow.

8. Control the press

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, East Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s, the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s, China in the 80s and 90s - all dictatorships and would-be dictators target newspapers and journalists. They threaten and harass them in more open societies that they are seeking to close, and they arrest them and worse in societies that have been closed already.

The Committee to Protect Journalists says arrests of US journalists are at an all-time high: Josh Wolf (no relation), a blogger in San Francisco, has been put in jail for a year for refusing to turn over video of an anti-war demonstration; Homeland Security brought a criminal complaint against reporter Greg Palast, claiming he threatened "critical infrastructure" when he and a TV producer were filming victims of Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana. Palast had written a bestseller critical of the Bush administration.

Other reporters and writers have been punished in other ways. Joseph C Wilson accused Bush, in a New York Times op-ed, of leading the country to war on the basis of a false charge that Saddam Hussein had acquired yellowcake uranium in Niger. His wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA spy - a form of retaliation that ended her career.

Prosecution and job loss are nothing, though, compared with how the US is treating journalists seeking to cover the conflict in Iraq in an unbiased way. The Committee to Protect Journalists has documented multiple accounts of the US military in Iraq firing upon or threatening to fire upon unembedded (meaning independent) reporters and camera operators from organisations ranging from al-Jazeera to the BBC. While westerners may question the accounts by al-Jazeera, they should pay attention to the accounts of reporters such as the BBC's Kate Adie. In some cases reporters have been wounded or killed, including ITN's Terry Lloyd in 2003. Both CBS and the Associated Press in Iraq had staff members seized by the US military and taken to violent prisons; the news organisations were unable to see the evidence against their staffers.

Over time in closing societies, real news is supplanted by fake news and false documents. Pinochet showed Chilean citizens falsified documents to back up his claim that terrorists had been about to attack the nation. The yellowcake charge, too, was based on forged papers.

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America - it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out, a steady stream of lies polluting the news well. What you already have is a White House directing a stream of false information that is so relentless that it is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth. In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real news from fake, they give up their demands for accountability bit by bit.

9. Dissent equals treason10. Suspend the rule of law

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gave the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens.

Even as Americans were focused on Britney Spears's meltdown and the question of who fathered Anna Nicole's baby, the New York Times editorialised about this shift: "A disturbing recent phenomenon in Washington is that laws that strike to the heart of American democracy have been passed in the dead of night ... Beyond actual insurrection, the president may now use military troops as a domestic police force in response to a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, terrorist attack or any 'other condition'."

Critics see this as a clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act - which was meant to restrain the federal government from using the military for domestic law enforcement. The Democratic senator Patrick Leahy says the bill encourages a president to declare federal martial law. It also violates the very reason the founders set up our system of government as they did: having seen citizens bullied by a monarch's soldiers, the founders were terrified of exactly this kind of concentration of militias' power over American people in the hands of an oppressive executive or faction.

Of course, the United States is not vulnerable to the violent, total closing-down of the system that followed Mussolini's march on Rome or Hitler's roundup of political prisoners. Our democratic habits are too resilient, and our military and judiciary too independent, for any kind of scenario like that.

Rather, as other critics are noting, our experiment in democracy could be closed down by a process of erosion.

It is a mistake to think that early in a fascist shift you see the profile of barbed wire against the sky. In the early days, things look normal on the surface; peasants were celebrating harvest festivals in Calabria in 1922; people were shopping and going to the movies in Berlin in 1931. Early on, as WH Auden put it, the horror is always elsewhere - while someone is being tortured, children are skating, ships are sailing: "dogs go on with their doggy life ... How everything turns away/ Quite leisurely from the disaster."

As Americans turn away quite leisurely, keeping tuned to internet shopping and American Idol, the foundations of democracy are being fatally corroded. Something has changed profoundly that weakens us unprecedentedly: our democratic traditions, independent judiciary and free press do their work today in a context in which we are "at war" in a "long war" - a war without end, on a battlefield described as the globe, in a context that gives the president - without US citizens realising it yet - the power over US citizens of freedom or long solitary incarceration, on his say-so alone.

That means a hollowness has been expanding under the foundation of all these still- free-looking institutions - and this foundation can give way under certain kinds of pressure. To prevent such an outcome, we have to think about the "what ifs".

What if, in a year and a half, there is another attack - say, God forbid, a dirty bomb? The executive can declare a state of emergency. History shows that any leader, of any party, will be tempted to maintain emergency powers after the crisis has passed. With the gutting of traditional checks and balances, we are no less endangered by a President Hillary than by a President Giuliani - because any executive will be tempted to enforce his or her will through edict rather than the arduous, uncertain process of democratic negotiation and compromise.

What if the publisher of a major US newspaper were charged with treason or espionage, as a rightwing effort seemed to threaten Keller with last year? What if he or she got 10 years in jail? What would the newspapers look like the next day? Judging from history, they would not cease publishing; but they would suddenly be very polite.

Right now, only a handful of patriots are trying to hold back the tide of tyranny for the rest of us - staff at the Center for Constitutional Rights, who faced death threats for representing the detainees yet persisted all the way to the Supreme Court; activists at the American Civil Liberties Union; and prominent conservatives trying to roll back the corrosive new laws, under the banner of a new group called the American Freedom Agenda. This small, disparate collection of people needs everybody's help, including that of Europeans and others internationally who are willing to put pressure on the administration because they can see what a US unrestrained by real democracy at home can mean for the rest of the world.

We need to look at history and face the "what ifs". For if we keep going down this road, the "end of America" could come for each of us in a different way, at a different moment; each of us might have a different moment when we feel forced to look back and think: that is how it was before - and this is the way it is now.

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands ... is the definition of tyranny," wrote James Madison. We still have the choice to stop going down this road; we can stand our ground and fight for our nation, and take up the banner the founders asked us to carry.
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 08:22 pm
@RedOct,
Very good. I am glad you are at least able to cite things rather than just spout opinions. Your response warrants some reading and consideration.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 08:33 pm
@Curmudgeon,
i not saying the US is going to take over the world, just that the US could take over the world...
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2007 08:44 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;45696 wrote:
Very good. I am glad you are at least able to cite things rather than just spout opinions. Your response warrants some reading and consideration.


It's rare that I will argue a point of view without the ammunition to back it up, or at least the reason I come to my conclusions.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2007 12:45 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;45685 wrote:
Sorry to hear you lived such a meaningless life.


Better than joining America's enemies.:no:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2007 12:47 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;45698 wrote:
i not saying the US is going to take over the world, just that the US could take over the world...


We are morally obligated to try always to dominate the world. That is nothing less than our divine calling. AMERICA FIRST, ALWAYS.
:AR15firing:
:AR15firing:
:AR15firing:
:AR15firing:
:AR15firing:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2007 12:49 pm
@RedOct,
"I travelled abroad, visiting news lands and peoples.
I was awed by how different they were from my world.
Upon leaving each one of them, I called in air-strikes,
and blew them away, one at a time."

-- Son of Franco
0 Replies
 
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2007 12:50 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;45726 wrote:
I was quoting you, White Muslim.Very Happy


Post reported as offensive.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2007 01:44 pm
@RedOct,
I am the Son of Franco. Deal with it.
0 Replies
 
 

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