Iraqis Wrestle With Jewish Factor

I was hoping the discussion would not degenerate to this level of myopia. You have pointed out a historic attitude of anti-Senitism among Arabs and then used it to buttress your ironic and idiotic beliefs about Muslims. I suppose the fact that this same sentiment was shared by Christians in Europe for over a thousand years means nothing to you. How hypocritical - you accuse the Muslims of racism when Europeans, at that same time, were building walls around Jewish settlements in Eastern Europe, and later in history, extermintating them by the millions with the support of a large percent of Europes population and the apathy of the rest of the continent.

The racism that has existed and still persists in Islamic places today is no different from the racism exhibited by Western civilization throughout history. Your point is more than moot - it is non-existant.

By the way, I have read the Bernard Lewis work quoted in the article and in no way does he support the general attitude you have taken in this thread.

"But as for the towns of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them--the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites--just as the LORD your God has commanded" - Deuteronomy 20:16-17

and this is the scripture upon which the jewish faith is based? a peaceful and tolerant religion. bullshit.

Er - and the Christian - and I doubt that many religions have helped fuel as much destruction as Christianity - which was used to help justify the annexation of entire continents, with the consequent appalling outcomes for their native peoples - along with the many religious massacres perpetrated by Christians upon each other.

Let us face it - many religions encourage bigotry among their faithful, sadly.

ILZ
The discussion is not about European Anti-Semitism. However the first sentence puts that in perspective.

ye110man
Why don' t you go back to the big bang while you are about it. You talk of ancient history, something which may or not have happened and has no relevance in today's society. While every Friday in Mosques around the world hate preaching abounds against Jews advocating their killing and calling Jews apes, sons of apes and etc. In addition and even more damaging Islamic schools teach generations of children to hate.

the torah isn't taught in jewish schools anymore? that's news to me.

Surah 2:47


Surah 29:46

sounds like tolerance to me.

Jewish schools do not teach hate to the young. Nor will you find people at the pulpit advocating murder. You will find that sermons in Mosques around the world do just that. If you need proof go to the web there is a wealth of information and examples therein.




Since you know the Surah you must know some of the hate speech included therein. A little honesty would be appreciated.

You don't think there's anything wrong with teaching Jewish children that their god advocates the annilhiation of entire peoples? I fail to see how such a religion could be any more tolerant than Islam.

Having been to both Jewish synagogues and Muslim mosques I can say that I have never personally heard any sermons advocating murder. The muslims that I've known never seemed to want to kill any Jews. But hey if the internet says that sermons in mosques teach children to murder, then who am I to argue?

I'm curious. What do you find offensive in that passage?

Au,

There is a long history of people preaching hatred from pulpits. Sermons have supported and inspired mistreatment of Blacks, Asians and yes, even Jews.

I am not saying that *all* religion is bad. I am arguing against such broad generalizations.

Au, Your hatred is not justified. You are singling out an entire religion consisting of millions of people. You are implying that they can be demonized as a group.

That is bigotry.

Hatred against the Moslems is being preached from Christian pulpits. There is also terrible things being preached today about Homosexuals and Jews. That this happens in some churches does not mean that Christianity is a bad religion.

I oppose hatred being preached, wether it is in a Christian Church, a Jewish Synagogue a Moslem Mosque or a Au posting.

I refuse to condemn an entire ethnic group or religion for any of these.

Hobitbob
Nothing, did I say there was. There are passages in the Surah that are. Those are the passages used to excoriate the Jews and indeed Christians. Have see them quoted from time to time and anyone knowledgeable in the Surah I am sure knows they exist. I am just as sure they would not be noted by the writer since it would destroy the argument. I should note however that which appears in religious script written 1000+ years ago is meaningless unless it is acted upon.

AU, a "surah" is a passage from the Q'uran. It is difficult to take someone seriously when they don't even make the effort to use proper terminology. This reminds me of the fundamentalist Christians who think that since the King James bible is in Elizabethan English that must mean that Jesus spoke English (Remember Tom DeLay(why doesn't he just change his surname to "Retard?")'s comment "If English was good enough for Jesus, then its good enough for me!).

Brown
Truth is truth no matter how uncomfortable you may find it.

Bigotry is bigotry no matter how comfortable you may find it.

Imitation is a complement.

Here is something else for you to chew on. Don't break your teeth.
Islam is the Cause . . .

Terrorism the Result

By Jock L. Falkson



One of the problems receiving too little attention is the part played by Islam in sponsoring and indoctrinating an active climate of Arab terrorism in Israel.

The problem is the Imams and the sermons they preach to congregants who attend Mosques each Friday to learn how to better serve Allah.

What congregants get is a weekly dose of pure venom against Israelis (and Americans) - the infidels, as Islam defines them. The sermons in our part of the world are rabble-rousing hate speeches of hostility against Israel, Jews, Judaism and Zionism. In other world areas Islam also targets Christians and Christianity.

Based on verses embedded in the Koran the sermons require, indeed demand, the people of Islam should exterminate all unbelievers. Koranic references and threats to this effect “outweigh concrete instruction by about 20 to 1”, according to David Klinghoffer’s analysis in Jerusalem Post, March 19. (Titled “Read and believe”)

The main thrust of Islam is to kill unbelievers, pagans and followers of other religions. Klinghoffer refers to Islam’s “fire breathing hostility” . . . “unremitting fury” . . . “pagan thrashing passages”. And provides some specific verses:

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.”

“God loves those who fight for His cause . . .”

“If you do not go to war, He will punish you sternly.”

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.”

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers . . . Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.”

These ordinances may be hard for Jews and Christians to swallow as their Bibles contain no similar directives. But Muslims attending weekly prayers have come to expect these exhortations to obey Allah’s teaching. Unfortunately for non-Muslims, we must be punished for our unbelief by death at the hands of those “true believers”.

The modus operandi of killing is the choice of the killers. Here are some of the inventive methods used against Israelis:

Homicide bombing. Car and truck bombing. Driving vehicles into people. Machine gunning crowds. Drive by shooting. Roadside bombing. Ambushes. Grenade throwing. Invading homes and killing inhabitants. Booby traps. Sniping Knifing. Axing. Stoning. Smashing heads to pulp with large rocks. Lynching.

And, in the US, the cold blooded massacre by kamikaze hijackers exploding planeloads of people into tall buildings, where thousands can be killed, vaporized, burnt to death, or buried alive. And many thousands injured. (9/11)

While every adherent of Islam is certainly not a terrorist, every Arab terrorist is a Muslim. Islam is the glue that binds the Arab populations of the Middle East. It explains why no Arab country was prepared to join the American led military coalition against another Muslim country. And why, on the contrary, many individual Arabs are making their way to Iraq to help their brothers fight the Big Satan and his Christian coalition.

Muslims are also coming from non-Arab countries such Iran as Indonesia. Such is the unifying power of Islam which, week in, week out, brainwashes true Muslims to kill non-believers.

“We are a believing people, a fighting people,” said Gen. Hazim al-Rawi, the Iraqi Military spokesman earlier this week. “Jihad is a must, a duty ordained by God”.

The most effective terrorists are those who go to terrorist training schools to be taught how to kill and maim their enemies. Training may take weeks or months, sometimes years. Having become knowledgeable and expert in the techniques of their profession they join a cell in an existing terrorist movement. Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, Al Asqa Brigade, PLFP, Hamas and others.

But the decision to become a terrorist stems directly from weekly attendance and absorption of the believer’s message at Mosques throughout the Muslim world.

Causes vs. Symptoms

It is essential to recognize that the precepts of Islam precede the transition to terrorism - not the other way round. Thus it is not terrorists who become Muslims, but Muslims who become terrorists.

“Death to the Jews” is what the Imams preach every Friday in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. It is what their motivated macho congregants, undoubtedly swayed by the promise of endless sex with 72 black-eyed virgins (and other heavenly benefits) are honestly led to expect.

This problem will still confront Israel if the Arabs are awarded yet another state by America and the anti-Semitic Quartet. Certainly a richly undeserved reward for years of unrelenting terror against Israel’s civilians and military.

For Arab signatures on a so called peace document won’t stop Muslim/Arab hatred and terrorism. The Koran is not concerned for political correctness. Its message is that its teachings cannot be compromised or eliminated, not even if Israel is eliminated. (That will be the day!)

Will the Imams in Iraq support the coalition’s new regime?

This will be the problem of the US coalition after it wins the war against Iraq. It will certainly come to an accord with the new regime. But it will not come to any accommodation with the Imams.

The US needs to understand that the Koran compels them to promote terrorism, whether in Iraq, the US or Europe – wherever Muslims congregate. How will the US deal with this ongoing problem?

Well, AU, it sounds like you would be happy with nohing short of a campaign to wipe them from the face of the planet. Interesting sentiment, coming from someone who is so aware of the effects of the holocaust. But, I guess genocide is alright when is is directed against someone besides the Jews, right? What a hypocrite!

Hobitbob
No what I want is live and let live. From what I can see and understand many Moslems, to many, do not. All I am doing is calling it like I see it apparently to the chagrin of some of you since it was not following your party line. Odd that you should mention the holocaust since that is exactly what the Moslems have in mind for the Jews. If you have followed history you know that the Mufti was four square with Hitler in his treatment of the Jews.

As was most of the American public. You may think that you are being "fair," but you are not. You come across as a bigot. I sincerely doubt you have had any interaction with Muslims, for if you had, you would sing a different tune. I take a certain amount of comfort from the fact that you are aparrently getting on in years, and therefore your individual bigotry will be gone before too long. Have a nice day.

Hobitbob
Me and most of the American public are bigots? Do you wish for their death also. I guess that is your peoples way. I don't doubt that you also pray for the US failure in Iraq and Afghanistan as well.