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Can Muslims be good Americans?

 
 
socalgolfguy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 02:49 pm
@tvsej,
tvsej;29884 wrote:
Thank you again for the comps. but I am not a guy. I hope that doesn't change anything.


Sorry! Does not change a thing....
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 07:03 pm
@socalgolfguy,
socalgolfguy;29850 wrote:
I agree, even it they are good Americans they will never stand up against the fanatics. Kinda like labor union members and their uppers.


Yep. Individuals might be cool, but the crowd is dangerous.:headbang:
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 07:04 pm
@quagmire cv,
quagmire;29472 wrote:
I'm very sick of such misconceptions about Islam and muslims. However, an American, in the first place, is a man who belongs to America regardless of what religion he embraces.


Yeah...but the second he tolerates bomb-throwing on the part of his ideological brethren, he's screwed the pooch.:thumbdown:
0 Replies
 
politically-wrong
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2007 01:14 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;29846 wrote:
Sure, but I wouldn't trust any of them. I know that if a relative with radical views showed up, they'd tolerate his presence, and he might blow up my family. Decent Muslims refuse to stand up to their crazed brethren, and that's the issue. :headbang:


your worries about ur family are ofcourse right , but u shouldnot let that in leading u to think that every muslim would allow his (radical)cousin to go blow up an american family ? pardon me bu thats rediculus judging one billion people to have the same opinion or reaction to the same situation is just not right thinking , there might be some who would tolerate a relatives radical thinking, but the majority came to america to make money and live happily , they r not going to get involved in this kind of thing for the sake of a cause he doesnot believe in ( if he believed in it, he would practicaly participate) , those who plan to go to america to terrorize dont stay with his cousin , they have their own groups.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 12:13 pm
@politically-wrong,
politically-wrong;30319 wrote:
your worries about ur family are ofcourse right , but u shouldnot let that in leading u to think that every muslim would allow his (radical)cousin to go blow up an american family ? pardon me bu thats rediculus judging one billion people to have the same opinion or reaction to the same situation is just not right thinking , there might be some who would tolerate a relatives radical thinking, but the majority came to america to make money and live happily , they r not going to get involved in this kind of thing for the sake of a cause he doesnot believe in ( if he believed in it, he would practicaly participate) , those who plan to go to america to terrorize dont stay with his cousin , they have their own groups.


Right.....but would the peaceful, hard-working American-Muslim report his bomb-throwing cousin to the police? That's my concern -- that he wouldn't, because he wouldn't want to get his head cut off by his cousin's vengeful buddies. Therefore, his cousin, et al, would be free to wander my country, harboring this ill-will and intention to blow it up.:dunno:
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 05:15 pm
@socalgolfguy,
The fastest growing threat to the US is violent criminals converting to Islam while in prison. I think domestic terrorism is more of a threat than the foreign element.

Politically wrong your post are insiteful. Thanks.
politically-wrong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 01:20 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;30577 wrote:
Right.....but would the peaceful, hard-working American-Muslim report his bomb-throwing cousin to the police? That's my concern -- that he wouldn't, because he wouldn't want to get his head cut off by his cousin's vengeful buddies. Therefore, his cousin, et al, would be free to wander my country, harboring this ill-will and intention to blow it up.:dunno:


Exactly, can u hate some one for fearing for his life? , assuming what u r saying about the endless hurd of vengeful buddies , keep in mind some people will fear that the police may think they too r involved , i can not give u a straight answer, but i will tell u this, if i found that my brother was targeting a civilian of any nationality(even if Israeli) i would try to stop him, or report him if i failed, and iam not an angel or anything so many of the people i know would do the same, but i wouldnot care less if it was a military target, on the other hand its a pritty difficult situation where u stand, either continue to think of every muslim as a potential terrorist or the country is in danger, i can not figure out how u can come up with a better solution, goodluck.:thumbup:
politically-wrong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 01:32 am
@Red cv,
Red;30663 wrote:
The fastest growing threat to the US is violent criminals converting to Islam while in prison. I think domestic terrorism is more of a threat than the foreign element.

Politically wrong your post are insiteful. Thanks.


Well i hope those criminals understand that the word Islam is derived from the arabic word meaning peace.

The same applies to ur posts red, thanks to u too.
0 Replies
 
politically-wrong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 01:51 am
@socalgolfguy,
By the way Red, may be u dont know, but your country is high on the list of coutries muslim youth consider to be a place without discrimination and great chances of a better life (in my country atleast) , specially after whats been happening in the US after the 911 attacks, already a couple of my friends r over there, not sure which state though.
quagmire cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 08:10 am
@politically-wrong,
Dear politically-wrong,

Thanks for the kudos.

Most of anti-Islam stances, conceptions, and misunderstandings are based mainly on some muslims not on the Islam. As a Sudanese, if you really are and not only writing from Khartoum as a none Sudanese, you may have read about that muslim scholar who in the century before the last one visited Europe and after his return his fellow citizens asked him about his impressions of the journey he answered that in Europe he met real muslims but without the Islam and here in the East Islam without muslims.

Once again thank you for the kudos!
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 08:23 am
@politically-wrong,
politically-wrong;30739 wrote:
Exactly, can u hate some one for fearing for his life? , assuming what u r saying about the endless hurd of vengeful buddies , keep in mind some people will fear that the police may think they too r involved , i can not give u a straight answer, but i will tell u this, if i found that my brother was targeting a civilian of any nationality(even if Israeli) i would try to stop him, or report him if i failed, and iam not an angel or anything so many of the people i know would do the same, but i wouldnot care less if it was a military target, on the other hand its a pritty difficult situation where u stand, either continue to think of every muslim as a potential terrorist or the country is in danger, i can not figure out how u can come up with a better solution, goodluck.:thumbup:


Until they become more responsible as a nation/community/people, I can't trust them, and will do everything in my legal power to keep them out of my country. Whenever I see people wearing Muslim garb in real life, I think, "What a shame. What a shame." Sure, I ignore them, but privately, I'm thinking very negative thoughts about their presence in my community. I don't want them here.:thumbdown:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 08:27 am
@quagmire cv,
quagmire;30765 wrote:
Dear politically-wrong,

Thanks for the kudos.

Most of anti-Islam stances, conceptions, and misunderstandings are based mainly on some muslims not on the Islam. As a Sudanese, if you really are and not only writing from Khartoum as a none Sudanese, you may have read about that muslim scholar who in the century before the last one visited Europe and after his return his fellow citizens asked him about his impressions of the journey he answered that in Europe he met real muslims but without the Islam and here in the East Islam without muslims.

Once again thank you for the kudos!


No offense, but I am one American who dislikes Islam, completely, and sees absolutely nothing redeemable in it. Again....no offense. I actually pray for the day when there will be no Islam in America. Europe is lost, but America still has a chance.:thumbup:
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 09:03 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;30769 wrote:
Until they become more responsible as a nation/community/people, I can't trust them, and will do everything in my legal power to keep them out of my country. Whenever I see people wearing Muslim garb in real life, I think, "What a shame. What a shame." Sure, I ignore them, but privately, I'm thinking very negative thoughts about their presence in my community. I don't want them here.:thumbdown:



You shouldn't carry that burden, do you feel the same when you see a jew wearing a yamika?

You should feel angry about foot basins, and islamic prayer in school, even not being religious this is just unjust, and unconsitutional. I don't believe there should be organized prayer in public schools, even for christians, I couldn't care less if their religion requires x amount of prayer at certain times of day, adjust like everyone else, you are in America now, not the middle east.
quagmire cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 09:15 am
@socalgolfguy,
socalgolfguy;29682 wrote:
Thanks, Quag - I did say to correct me if I was wrong. It seems to me that the radical element within the Muslim community moves about the middle east with complete freedom like Ali Baba and the 40 thieves with complete disdain for government. Muslims first, citizens second. Am I wrong?

Note to PW - I asked a question - you give it a "right on bro"..?



Lets us, dear socalgolfguy, differntiate between the man and the religion he embraces and how good follower is he and only then we can appreciate why Islam is mandating on muslims to believe in and appreciate all prophets (peace be upon them) and holy religions from Christ (peace be upon him) and Christianity to Moses (peace be upon him) and down to the animists and animism as long as those (animists) don't encroach on the holy religion believers. The freedom of belief is very candid in Islam and explicitly highlighted in the Holy Quran. So radicals/extremists or fundamentalists among muslim communities are no difference in other non-muslim communities.

"Muslims first, citizens second. Am I wrong?" For the sake of conversation I would first question the premise on which you draw this conclusion.
0 Replies
 
quagmire cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 09:34 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;30773 wrote:
No offense, but I am one American who dislikes Islam, completely, and sees absolutely nothing redeemable in it. Again....no offense. I actually pray for the day when there will be no Islam in America. Europe is lost, but America still has a chance.:thumbup:


Not at all.

Yours is a different story. You are talking about Islam and not the muslims. And this proves that to be a citizen has nothing to do with what you believe and you should only be accounted for how good or bad a citizen you are.

Talking history and shortly before the emergence of Islam an Abyssian king campaigned to destroy the Kaba in Makkah. On the way, his troops captured some cattles that belonged to the grandfather of the wouldbe prophet of Islam (peace be upon him). That man met the king and asked him to order the release of his captured cattles. The king mocked the man for so being worried about his cattles and not equally worried that the king was going to destroy the Kaba. The man replied that as for the Kaba there is a God to protect it while for his cattles he is the one.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 04:28 pm
@quagmire cv,
quagmire;30823 wrote:
Not at all.

Yours is a different story. You are talking about Islam and not the muslims. And this proves that to be a citizen has nothing to do with what you believe and you should only be accounted for how good or bad a citizen you are.

Talking history and shortly before the emergence of Islam an Abyssian king campaigned to destroy the Kaba in Makkah. On the way, his troops captured some cattles that belonged to the grandfather of the wouldbe prophet of Islam (peace be upon him). That man met the king and asked him to order the release of his captured cattles. The king mocked the man for so being worried about his cattles and not equally worried that the king was going to destroy the Kaba. The man replied that as for the Kaba there is a God to protect it while for his cattles he is the one.


I want my country's culture to stay Christian. Sorry.
quagmire cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 01:11 am
@Crito,
Crito;29711 wrote:
Please enlighten us to the significance of the crescent moon prominently displayed on so many flags.


A good remark.

I went thru several websites and find out that some cresent flags are not raised by muslim countries or countries with muslim population majority and that not all countries with majority of muslim population have cresent as insignia on their flags.

Grateful to your comment that I've enriched my knowledge about the Scandinavian crosses, Bolnur-Katskhuri Cross, the George Cross, the southern cross!
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2007 09:02 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;30988 wrote:
I want my country's culture to stay Christian. Sorry.


All countries will eventually have all nations and faiths represented within their borders. Look around and you will see that we are almost there now.
This is to be the future. No more black or white. We will all be brown.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 09:29 pm
@socalgolfguy,
socalgolfguy;19773 wrote:
I received the following email today - curious what everyone thinks.

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except
Islam (Quran, 2:256)
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Kor an).
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day. Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Mohammed, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.
The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future The war is bigger than we know or understand


I know this much to be American one becomes through the legal system and then strives to integrate themselves into our society. Not bring everything from their old country, that they felt would somehow harm them. And for some reason not get involved in American life except work. Where back home women couldn't work in most Muslim countries. Keep their own language and want their own holidays. Want us to build schools so they can teach hate. No that isn't the reason I went off and fought in the NAM. The same applies to others whom want to keep their own Nationalisms. If that is the choice these people have made, so then deport them, period. Because Islam is a danger to the whole world. And these same ones will someday become the killers by keeping quite and not speaking out that this is wrong what is being done in their religions name.
We all make choices but it is the right choice that counts. They are not ever going to be Americans, because they intend to control America someday!
And that means everyone becomes faithful to Islam or dies!
Now please don't reply I am a hate or judging person. I watch the news I know guys in the 173 ABN who know what is going on. Islam is the threat.
0 Replies
 
wvpeach
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 09:44 pm
@Pinochet73,
Surprise , surprise that you would secretly think mean thoughts about people you don't even know:thumbdown:



Pinochet73;30769 wrote:
Until they become more responsible as a nation/community/people, I can't trust them, and will do everything in my legal power to keep them out of my country. Whenever I see people wearing Muslim garb in real life, I think, "What a shame. What a shame." Sure, I ignore them, but privately, I'm thinking very negative thoughts about their presence in my community. I don't want them here.:thumbdown:
0 Replies
 
 

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