Can Muslims be good Americans?

That's just ignorance. You do realize 99% of our intel in the middle east comes from other muslims right? Our translators were all muslim, the Iraq government you want to succeed is all muslim, kind of hypocritical don't you think? According to you, we have already lost the fight, because we are impowering muslim in Iraq to rule themselves instead of smashin' 'em hard!!!.

You're starting to think like a typical European. I won't succumb to such simple, yet lethal confusion. No....we're at war with these people. Many who thought as you do are now dead. WE ARE AT WAR WITH THEM. It makes no sense to allow them to live in our country. Remember 911. Remember the London bombings. Remember Madrid.

With the stoning of children: Jesus was in a heated debate with the Pharisees after they criticized him for not washing his hands before he ate. He countered by saying "well you don't stone your children in accordance with gods law, the prophets of the Torah were right, your hypocrites and you do many things like this"

of all the "many things like this" Jesus specifically chose the stoning of children. In any heated debate with an adversary you will always pick the largest polarities to argue, and you certainly wouldn't call somebody a hypocrite for not doing something you wouldn't do either. That would say that Jesus was "the pot calling the kettle black", a serious error to make in a debate. So basically either Jesus was pro stoning children, or the perfect living god on earth was a terrible debater who lacked the intellect to see that his argument in and of itself was hypocritical.

It's really a moot point anyway because one of biggest poofs that the Bible is not the word of God is that God sanctions rape, murder, slavery, and child abuse. Hardly very God like. And before you go off on that feeble attempt to say that the old testament "doesn't count", Jesus himself saw the Torah in a very literal sense.

On Corinthians The Apostle is very clear in this Christian work that he speaks for God, delivering a Holy message that Jesus himself sent to him in a vision. He goes on to make some seriously sexist remarks and sanctions slavery in the new covenant. Either you accept that or you decanonize the New Testament, which is very much against what the Bible itself says about dis considering portions of it.

Or maybe Corinthians isn't "as canon" as the canonical gospels. Well even those four books weren't written until well after the death of Jesus (in fact the earliest known copy is of the Gospel of Mark, dated to 125 CE nearly 100 years after the crucifiction, and makes no mention of the resurrection)

no your attempts to wash away what's actually a very real part of your religion are shaky at best and seems to be more driven by your lack of education on Christianity. Or perhaps you would put away the "word of God" as found in the Bible in favor of your own "man made" covenant with God. Funny, that's exactly what Jesus was so mad about in that debate...

The Torah is literal, a literal account of the Jewish history. The thing is that God's commands were the most sensible things to do, because it would have been easy for large numbers of conquered people to rebel against a relatively small group of Israelites. It was only what was necessary.

Okay, I don't mean that it's physically impossible to be a Muslim, it's impossible to be a good Muslim and follow the Koran and willingly live in the U.S. as a good citizen.

Exodus 21

slavery

2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
5 "But if the servant declares, 'I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,' 6 then his master must take him before the judges. [a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Parenting

15 "Anyone who attacks [c] his father or his mother must be put to death

17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death

The Ethical Treatment of Slaves

20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites this:...

the Idea that Jesus (who was God on earth in Christian faith) came to earth and had that argument with the Pharisees, BUT, didn't actually think they should be following God's law concerning the stoning of children is laughable

Can you point out the passages in the Quran that state they have to kill AMericans? And please don't leave out the CONTEXT in which those passages are used. Because, from what I am have read SIlver is doing to you with the bible, that you are doing to the Quran. Taking passages out of context to validate an argument. While I believe Silver is just doing it for shits and giggles, I tihnk a lot of people do it to justify war, and murder.

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

how many stoned children does it take to show that the Bible isn't the word of God? Just one, ever. The idea that it doesn't matter because it happened to a culture we're disconnected from thousands of years ago is some of the most self absorbed theology one could ever offer.

Yes, they are. I know some of them, especially the first one is during a war with pagans, like I said, put them in context.

Whatever. This is not my problem.

It was during a war with pagans, but the war against nonbelievers is eternal, and this is a command to wait for the end of the Holy months to go on a killing rampage. If you have problems with the context I'm using the other verses in, please point them out individually, I cannot find an online Koran to copy and paste everything from (these were all obviously on a site talking about jihad.)

So, you don't want us to help Iraq succeed? And you want to kill them all?

So leaving them to kill themselves is fine then? Someone call Washington...

They're nearly impossible to deal with. I suspect the only thing they understand is extreme force. They respect what they fear.

Best quote ever




way to think it through dude :thumbup:

After having spent a year, surrounded by muslims, in a muslim country, I wouldn't have any aversion to my kid playing with little muslim kids. I wouldn't let him stay with Iraqis in Iraq...no. But the ones I know here are just like you and me, well, nothing like you, they are more tolerant than most christians. No matter what Reaganknight, or anyone else would have you beleive, there are NOT billions of muslims are the world waiting to cut our heads off. Take the tinhat off, and have a cold one.