The crazy is back in Iraq

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;17458 wrote:

You are correct, I misconstrued it during my intial reading. Of course that doesn't change the "double edged sword".

If we could get rid of the radicals, that would definitely be a step in teh right direction, now how should we do that? I mean, there's always going to be a fringe element, even here in America we have radicals that commit acts of destruction. Our presence in Iraq only fuels the radicals resolve, so how do we support their newly formed government, and keep public sentiment positive?

You cannot get rid of the radicals. The radicals are the people with enough of a mind to do what their religion tells them to and interpret it correctly, but without enough of one or the desire to reject it's violent tendencies. They've never been a fringe group because it's unfortunately easy to see the point they have when it comes to their religion. In fact, the moderate element is a modern thing and it itself is the one trying to hijack the religion, but most moderates are not trying hard nough and merely being passive. The radicals interpret the Koran the way it's been interpreted for hundreds of years, and they've always been the majority. Basically, what I'm trying to get to is that we cannot destroy the radical element without destroying the religion because they are the religion. The Qu'ran and ahadith could easily be interpreted as radical reading material if one who was reading them did not know what they were and it was not so easy to guess what they were. What we have to do is get most of them to have a Kurdish mindset, freedom before religion. Of course, then the radicals become a fringe group. But it will always be so easy for them to preach their interpretation to others, simply because it makes the most sense, so, really, there is no sure way to completely alienate the radicals.

This is all considering that there is a difference between insurgents and radicals, although the former can often lead to being or already be the latter. These insurgents (Sunni, not Shiite) will always have an ingrained hatred for America, and usually a sense of Muslim/Iraqi/Arab pride, so they will become a huge group of potential terrorists if they are not already terrorists after the war. I think they will eventually support or pretend to not notice terrorists and their activities even if they are trying to kick out al-Quaeda now, because they are only fighting them now because they want us out, but will not hate them after we are gone (but will retain their hatred for us) especially if they can garuntee that they will fight the West and remain secret in Iraq so that America does not come back.

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@Silverchild79,

We must kill more bad guys. More must die.

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@Silverchild79,

sorry to dissappoint you guys,but the majority of the people of iraq dont want the foreign troops on their soil,and as long as you stay,more american troops are gonna die,whats the plan ? keep the troops their till you kill all the militias,its a no win situation,and the longer you stay the more unpopular the americans will become if thats possible.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;17475 wrote:

We must kill more bad guys. More must die.

yeh but the more you kill the more there is to take their place,its their country,not yours.

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@Silverchild79,

There is no country. There are three countries -- Kurdistan in the north, Sunni and Shia territory in the center and south, respectively. The idea is simply to keep killing, forever, until they all die, or at least a massive portion of them die. Then unleash Israel on Iran. We could also lessen our burden by giving Turkey the green light to invade Kurdistan. Yeah, Turks are scumbag Muslims, but they're not nearly as objectionable as the trash found in Southwest Asia.

P.S.: Don't forget my tactical recommendations --

a. Evacuate Westerners from Baghdad and then carpet-bomb it into find dust.
b. Blow up Tehran and Damascus the same way.
c. Fire-bomb southern Lebanon, killing every single member of Hezbollah living there. Burn the soil so severely, nothing ever grows upon it again.
d. Execute all Guantanamo Bay prisoners immediately and dump their corpses into shark-infested waters in the Caribbean.

1 Reply

@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;17476 wrote:

sorry to dissappoint you guys,but the majority of the people of iraq dont want the foreign troops on their soil,and as long as you stay,more american troops are gonna die,whats the plan ? keep the troops their till you kill all the militias,its a no win situation,and the longer you stay the more unpopular the americans will become if thats possible.

Too bad no one wants to admit that.

Good points Reaganknight, yes the moderates in the region are indeed being too passive. It doesn't make a lot of sense either because generally speaking they could get opinions to change if they tried. Kind of makes you wonder why they aren't. Do they not care? If that's the case, why should we? Are they fearful for their lives? Or do they stand to gain more by letting the carnage continue. Radicals meaning the extremist that are going to commit violent acts, aka terrorist, not just those that think in the same vein. But it is not all religion, that is, their hatred of Americans, look to what Scooby posted. They do not want us there, but that doesn't mean that every muslim, or even the majority of muslims want to kill Americans, or bomb America.

Quote:

because they are only fighting them now because they want us out, but will not hate them after we are gone

They don't nescessarily hate them now, they just realize that their methods of doing things are counterproductive to what they are trying to achieve.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;17492 wrote:

There is no country. There are three countries -- Kurdistan in the north, Sunni and Shia territory in the center and south, respectively. The idea is simply to keep killing, forever, until they all die, or at least a massive portion of them die. Then unleash Israel on Iran. We could also lessen our burden by giving Turkey the green light to invade Kurdistan. Yeah, Turks are scumbag Muslims, but they're not nearly as objectionable as the trash found in Southwest Asia.

P.S.: Don't forget my tactical recommendations --

a. Evacuate Westerners from Baghdad and then carpet-bomb it into find dust.
b. Blow up Tehran and Damascus the same way.
c. Fire-bomb southern Lebanon, killing every single member of Hezbollah living there. Burn the soil so severely, nothing ever grows upon it again.

you need therapy :headbang:

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@Silverchild79,

I am therapy. I am your therapy. Now, sit up straight and take notes.

1 Reply

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;17509 wrote:

I am therapy. I am your therapy. Now, sit up straight and take notes.

you sound like pat robertson :eek: or some other right wing christian lunatic

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@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;17511 wrote:

you sound like pat robertson :eek: or some other right wing christian lunatic

Call him a "fundie," I dare you.

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@Volunteer,

Volunteer;17516 wrote:

Call him a "fundie," I dare you.

nah lunatic will do fine :thumbup:

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@Silverchild79,

Quote:

It doesn't make a lot of sense either because generally speaking they could get opinions to change if they tried. Kind of makes you wonder why they aren't.

It depends, really. From our standpoint it looks this way, but taking into account that they have mostly never seen things from our view and instead they have been brought up to obey their faith, it's a matter of changing (or for the radicals, making them keep) their interpretation of Islam and not philosophy, and the radicals have the upper hand there.

Quote:

Are they fearful for their lives?

This is why, IMO, they are being so passive. Everyone important (and most others) is against them, really, whether they appear to be moderate because of their high positions or are openly radical, and having a fatwa issued against you is rarely fun. That's why many moderates who are able to immigrate to the west and may become agnostic or atheist or isolate themselves from other Muslims, they simply abandon the religion because it seems so hopeless and prefer to warn others of what is in store for them.

Quote:

Radicals meaning the extremist that are going to commit violent acts, aka terrorist, not just those that think in the same vein.

But those who think in the same vein will take Qu'ranic passages encouraging them to wage jihad, etc. into account seriously and at some point have to follow them, whether by becoming such terrorists or aidind and abetting them.

Quote:

But it is not all religion, that is, their hatred of Americans, look to what Scooby posted. They do not want us there, but that doesn't mean that every muslim, or even the majority of muslims want to kill Americans, or bomb America.

And that's what I meant in saying that there's a difference between radical and insurgent. Insurgents may or may not be radicals, but they are united in their dislike for America, and the best venue to express that hate is through terrorist acts. The majority of Muslims do not want to bomb America and it is usually the fact that they do not want us there (for Iraqis, at least. Most non-Iraqis could care less about us being in Iraq and just want to kill us), but all Muslims must obey the Koran, which is explicit in telling them to wage jihad/war against us and subject us, so it is easy for the terrorists to gain Muslims for their cause.

Internationally, the thing preventing millions of more people from becoming radicals is the fact that they must recite the Koran in Arabic, and most Muslims are not Arabs and do not know Arabic.

Quote:

They don't nescessarily hate them now, they just realize that their methods of doing things are counterproductive to what they are trying to achieve.

I just meant as opposed to how they will feel about us when we are both gone.
I

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@Silverchild79,

Quote:

We could also lessen our burden by giving Turkey the green light to invade Kurdistan. Yeah, Turks are scumbag Muslims, but they're not nearly as objectionable as the trash found in Southwest Asia.

Kill the people who actually like us (Kurds)? I say we pull back to Kurdistan, let the Sunnis and Shia kill eachother, and then invite Iraqi and Turkish Kurds to repopulate the entire country. It's not that simple, of course.

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@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;17518 wrote:

nah lunatic will do fine :thumbup:

Chicken

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@Volunteer,

Volunteer;17516 wrote:

Call him a "fundie," I dare you.

ok he is a fundie :thumbup: still a chicken Very Happy

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@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;17511 wrote:

you sound like pat robertson :eek: or some other right wing christian lunatic

I am absolutely NOT a Fundamentalist. I am Catholic. :headbang:

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

"nah lunatic will do fine"

That constitutes name-calling, which deserves retaliation (simply thinking of the ROE around here). I think anyone who believes in appeasing Terrorist Islam, which I consider Scooby to be promoting, is an idiot in the sad tradition of Neville Chamberlain. Thanks, Neville, for giving in to Hitler, and allowing him to carefully and openly construct one of the most monsterous and destructive killing machines of all human time, you spineless, shameless coward. When Iran starts a nuclear war in the Middle East, all Neville Chamberlain-type stooges should be instantly rounded up and shot in public.

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@Silverchild79,

Pinochet. Your catholic. You poor thing. Lets say I am wrong and there is a god, the same god in fact that YOUR religion describes.

How does it feel not being GOOD ENOUGH to talk to god yourself in asking forgiveness. (i'm just taking a piss, nothing more )

4500 dead? and? I am sorry I dont want any of my brothers and sisters to die, but its a job and that is a hazard of the job. Does anyone join the military thinking they get to be stationed in florida for 4 years, drink and party and then go home?

Americans have lost their stomach for any lengthy armed conflict. Can you imagine a WW3 Germany re rises to power. I assure you will speak german by the end of it. Not because we dont have the military mite. But because those of us NOT putting on the uniform dont have the stomach for it.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;17590 wrote:

I am absolutely NOT a Fundamentalist. I am Catholic. :headbang:

your not ? just reading your posts on this board i think otherwise,your user name is pinochet :thumbdown: a right wing dictator.

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@Silverchild79,

Scooby, I notice that you refer to America as other than a place you live. You say "...as long as YOU stay..." and "it's their country not YOURS". In what country do you reside?

Quote:

sorry to dissappoint you guys,but the majority of the people of iraq dont want the foreign troops on their soil,and as long as you stay,more american troops are gonna die,whats the plan ? keep the troops their till you kill all the militias,its a no win situation,and the longer you stay the more unpopular the americans will become if thats possible.

Quote:

yeh but the more you kill the more there is to take their place,its their country,not yours.

Since you were born a Scot, are you still living in Scotland or visiting here on a visa or residing with a green card? Being of Scottish descent myself, you can call me Ian.

1 Reply

The crazy is back in Iraq

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