Prophet "Muhammad" (PBUH) in the Bible

I really wish people would read an understand the items they quote.

The stories of the Old Testament were compiled starting at 500 BC but Abraham lived by some accounts 1,800 BC! Moses may have been alive around 1,300 BC. So that means there was from 800 to 1,300 years of oral tradition - even by your 500 BC statement

Read - Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Torah was "written" in the second century - earlier it was forbidden to write anything down.
The Christians would have written the OT after Christ's death

The Bible was written by men with a political agenda - a lot of people accept this.
These men wanted to cement their position and religion as absolute.
Many enlightened people do not think the Bible is infallible.

To prove my point - look at the Four Gospels - each one is slightly different from the other.



Are you sure it is not 4.2 Trillion? 4.2 Billion is not that impressive since Bill Gates has 10 times that much

I am pretty sure it is billion, it is still a lot of money.

So Bill Gates has 10x as much money as the entire Catholic Church!

"Sword - Jesus did not inspire the Old Testament.
The OT was in existence long before Jesus showed up on the scene."

And Muhammad showed up in the early 600s (610: he began to teach in Mecca; 620: the Haj; 630: he conquered Mecca), and borrowed from BOTH Christianity and Judaism. By then, BOTH the OT and NT were on hand. Talk about a copy-cat. He invented a religion more to the liking of Arabs.

I just want you to decide if Jesus is considered -according to your faith- God or Not !?

- If you consider him God, then he must be the God of Moses too! Then he must inspired the OT.

-If you say: No he is not the "Father" God -who inspired the OT- but rather he is the "Son" God, then do you suggest that the Father and the Son do NOT agree on certain matters like what the Father inspired in the OT !!


I told you it is just a blind faith that contradicts the basics of every rational thinking and logic.

Sword - read what I wrote in post #61

God did not write the Old Testament - Man did.
Jesus did not write the New Testament - Man did.

God did not write the Koran - Man did.

Right. Thank you for admitting it. Therefore, you are following man-made faith (a Blind Faith Follower).




Wrong. Your claim here is clearly based on desires and assumptions only. Quran, is not like the bible, it's the exact words of God (Allah). When the claims of truth become many, we as Muslims were ordered by Allah to seek the Truth by the proof, by the proof the Truth is known, because always there is only One Truth Which is the real truth.

The perfect compatibility MIRACLES OF Quran (which was revealed 14 centuries ago) with modern Science prove that this Book could not be authored by man, rather a greater source had to have been the author of this Book. Click here for the proofs if you are sincere Harun Yahya - An Invitation to The Truth

Is there any hard evidence of this?

All religions require faith to follow, because all religious are missing the singed endorsement of God

to say "except my religion" is nothing more then opinion

Sword - can you tell us where it says that God Wrote the Koran?
Did God himself make the paper and write the words himself and give the hard copy to Muhammad?

If so - then that book must be in perfect condition somewhere today.
I can't see something manufactured by God to fall to pieces over the centuries.

My understanding is that over a period of 30 years God told things to Muhammad and Muhammad wrote them down.

They may be the words of God - but words that were written down by a man.

Isn't that just a conspiracy theory, Pope Joan or something, pretty much disproven.

You can hardly put all popes under a blanket characterization. The Inquisition was used more by individual countries to solidify their authority.

And also, I'm pretty sure it was the Council of Rome that decided the books of the Bible.

The Koran is a compilation of so called prophetic visions from Muhammed.

Wasn't it the Nicea council? It was just an example of the mystery surronding the behaviour of catholic popes, of course not all of them were corrupt, it would be naive of me to say that, but there are suspicious circumstances to many. Anyways my point was these men are not the best keepers of the word of God, how can we trust them not to influence the biblical writings to their favor?

Nicaea was general beliefs, Rome was books of the Bible. Nicaea Two was separate to clear up an issue with icons. It was just Pope Damasus two, with a bunch of other church figures and scholars. So, like Nicaea, it was an okay way for scholars and church leaders to work out what we believe. Look up Council of Rome and Decretum Gelasianum.

I will thanks! And a council to decide what to believe in seem kind of wrong to me, were there many diverging ideas on what christianity should be at the time?

Yes, mostly though up by deviant theologians or people with little understanding of the religion. A gathering of religious scholars/figures was necessary to outline authentic and deserving, as well as Apocrypha, not quite deserving but legitimate, and heretical. This was obviously necessary to define and keep the faith alive.

The Papacy is a good position but sometimes the wrong type of men attained the position.

Just like being President of the US is a good position but look at the type of person that managed to become president.

I think it's hilarious, how he can't think one way for his instance and another for somebody else? I think he needs to admit that his book was writen my man and according to his own definition is: "Therefore, you are following man-made faith (a Blind Faith Follower)." Why does he not think Muhammid wrote down what his interpretation of Allahs words were? If it was indeed Muhamid that wrote then down and not a third party?

It was a Muhammed's followers if I am not mistaken, he would recite what the Angel Gabriel told him "on the spot", and they would register it.

Of course some popes were bad. I know for a fact that at least one or two were married or in forbidden relationships, one even used his son as a general.

I apologize to you for delayed answer to your questions because I was busy.

The answers to all of your questions and concerns can be found after reading the following article that contains most important aspects and issues about the Quran and if you have any further questions, then please ask:


The meaning of the word "Quran":

Al-Qura'n is an Arabic word, literally meaning 'reading' and 'recitation'.

Al-Quran is the word of Allah, the one and only GOD. Quran is The Book of Islam and is the final divine guidance in the line of Holy Scriptures.

Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in a period of 23 years starting 13 Before-Hijrah (610 AD).

Contents of the Quran:

Composed in 114 chapters or surah(s) of varying lengths, the Quran covers a wide range of subjects. Quran has been revealed for the guidance of mankind and invites the people of wisdom to read into its pages to enhance human knowledge about the universe and Creator, and to create environments where man could live in peace and harmony with the fellow human beings and with the Nature. It puts a special emphasis on the concept of oneness of god and his concern about the spiritual and worldly welfare of man. The holy scripture also enlightens on the creation of the world, specially, of man; of good and evil spirits; man's responsibility for his actions; the Day of Judgement; the final account; and rewards and punishments.

The book also contains rules and regulations regarding worship and the life of the community, the laws of the family: like marriage, divorce and inheritance. Since the Quran is said to be the very word of god, it is untranslatable. Nevertheless, for those who don't understand Arabic, the Quran has been explained and translated into almost all world languages. Still, every Muslim is expected to learn the Arabic script to be able to read the original text, even if he does not understand its meaning in Arabic.

Quran commands authority and leadership and thus declares that if anyone has any doubts about the truth of the Book which has been revealed to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), then they should try to make even one passage which could match the Book, and poses the challenge that despite the knowledge and resources that man has , he will not be able to do so (re: Al-Baqra 2:23-24). This challenge has not been met to-date.

The language, the poetic element and the continuity of the Quran can only be fully appreciated by those who have the knowledge and command of Arabic language, though people who have no or little knowledge of the language get a wealth of satisfaction by reciting Quran or listening to its recitation. Translation of Quran in other languages can not reproduce the true meanings or the appropriate sense, therefore those who know no or little Arabic and would really like to understand Quran, should learn the language first. Perhaps it would be interesting to point out that enemies of Islam attack Quran mostly by using its translation or analysing its passages which are taken out of context.


The Quran has been preserved:

The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).


Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.



Memorized by Millions - Entirely: How it has been revealed & preserved

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.


God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).


Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).

Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly

The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challanges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.

Scientific Miracles in Quran

The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).
[Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the "Miracle of Science in Quran"]



The Quran is full of verses talking about itself and here are few:

"And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds." [10. Surah Yunis: Ayah 37]

"Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy." [4. Surah Nisaa: Ayah 82]

"Surely We (Allah) Ourselves have revealed the Quran to you (Muhammad) revealing (it) in portions." [76. Surah Dahr : Ayah 23]


"We (Allah) have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom." [12. Surah Yusuf : Ayah 2]

"And it is a Quran which We (Allah) have revealed in portions so that you (Muhammad) may read it to the people by slow degrees, and We have revealed it, revealing in portions." [17. Surah Bani Israel : Ayah 106,9]

"Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only a Revelation revealed. He has been taught (this Qur'an) by one mighty in power (Jibril (Gabriel))" [Quran 53: 2-5]