Prophet "Muhammad" (PBUH) in the Bible

@SWORD of GOD,

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My main beef with the OT is this, look at Exodus, god forsakes the Egyptians in favor of the people of Israel. I just don't see god playing favorites with his own children. And while the world has changed allot I can never see a period in time where it would be godly to commit genocide and rape. That's a big hurdle for "God's timelessness and perfection" to overcome, and that's why it's generally not spoken about in Christian circles.

The Israelites were descendents of Abraham, and so they were God's chosen people. The Egyptians were surrounded by His faith as they treated His people horribly as slaves, yet none converted. They got their just punishment but then were prosperous again until history took its own toll with the Romans and then Arabs. Do you disagree? Did they deserve nothing after enslaving these people for so long? Jesus heralded a changing in God's policies of not deciding what were sins, but His just punishments. Jesus seems to be the more compassionate of the true; God's judgement is not blinded by passions like anger, he is completely just while still loving his followers, but they are sometimes needed, so Jesus enters the picture. Tactics like wiping out the Canaanites and others would not be practiced any more; Jesus brought a more peaceful message. Nevertheless, the tactics used by the Israelites were, as God must have seen, necessary.

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@Reagaknight,

I think that God had as much to do with the Isrealite slaughter of their neighbors as he does today with US success in Vietnam and Iraq. I do not think God aids anyone in such endeavors. God gives us his wisdom and how we chose to live is up to us. On Judgment Day God will say "I Told You So".

Note: All people are His people. There are no special people or people that God loves more. It is we the people that hate one another and say to one another that God loves us more than he loves them. This silliness reminds me of the taunts siblings make to one another when they are 4 or 5 years old

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@SWORD of GOD,

I am not a Jew, I cannot claim to be one of God's chosen people. They're God's chosen people because He said so, and modern liberalism doesn't have to justify it.

I'll concede though from a mdern point of view, but I have to say that they were his chosen people at the tim because they were his only worshippers.

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@Reagaknight,

I don't know if God ever said anything so ethnocentric. I think the people said that God said it.

Any God that is so ethnocentric does not deserve to be worshiped.

The true nature of a man and whether he deserves eternity in Heaven is determined by how he lives his life - whether he is good to his fellow man - and not whether he worships the right God in the right way.

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@SWORD of GOD,

How else would they have justified the slaugher of the caanaites after the 10 commandments if not by saying that they were God's people and deserved the promised land?

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@SWORD of GOD,

But still, you're missing my point, it was a necessary military tactic. And they were God's chosen people way before they thought they'd get to Canaan.

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@SWORD of GOD,

When did the notion of God's chosen people start?

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@Reagaknight,

The "Chosen People" were in Canaan before they went to Egypt. Remember Abraham? The "Chosen" did something wrong and that is why they were sent into Egypt and into slavery.

Remember that God communicated with Noah and so Noah knew about God and even after the Great Genocidal Flood - the Jewish people still went back to polytheistic religious practices. Then Moses brought them back to the One God. Even Moses brother was into worshiping idols after they got out of Egypt.

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@SWORD of GOD,

Abraham was in Mesopotamia but yes, they were from Canaan. Moses didn't bring them back to the one God, they had already worshipped him. Also, I believe that only Arabs and Jews are descended from Abraham, not other polytheists.

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@Reagaknight,

Who do you classify as "other polytheists"?

Judaism is by and large a "racial religion" in that most Jews are a Race + Religion

Islam started out as an "Arabic religion" but grew around the world
Christianity has always been a multicultural religion that spread out around the world.

Most Muslims are therefore not descendants of Abraham - unless of course some Muslims are more Muslim than others.

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@SWORD of GOD,

I mean did the expression first present itself, did Abraham already call himself part of God's chosen people? Or was that a later reference to his descendants, if anyone has actual dates?

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@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;13256 wrote:

Well..I advice you first to discuss with your christian friends in the forum and make your mind. Is Jesus God or Not.

If Jesus God then he must be the God of Moses and the biblical jews (or do you deny that!!), and therefore he had inspired Torah (Old Testament) too.

You christians seem to be in state of DENIAL whenever been faced with truth and shocking reality about your Blind Faith.

Quote:

You christians seem to be in state of DENIAL whenever been faced with truth and shocking reality about your Blind Faith

Look who's talking!

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@Drnaline,

Drnaline;13541 wrote:

Look who's talking!

We Muslims have Nothing to hide or feel ashamed of regarding the teachings of our True Religion (Islam). Not like you, christians, one day Jesus is God and the next day he is Not. You pick and choose from your bible, whatever suits your desires and lusts you stick to it and whatever against your lusts you reject (or you say out of context!). Same for jews with their OT. It is obvious that you lack trust in the claimed holiness (divine) teachings of your man-made bible.

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@Reagaknight,

We know the spirit of the words in the Bible.
We know that the Bible was written by men.
We know that men are fallible.

What do you have to be proud of in Islam?
You folks would be happiest if you were living in 900 AD.
Just look at the status of your women.
Look at how much the world likes you.

The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
Who said it was wrong and why?
Is it wrong?
If homosexuality was wrong then why would God afflict people with the condition - since it is now well understood that homosexuality is not about choice but about genes.

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@z0z0,

z0z0;13553 wrote:

We know the spirit of the words in the Bible.
We know that the Bible was written by men.
We know that men are fallible.

What do you have to be proud of in Islam?
You folks would be happiest if you were living in 900 AD.
Just look at the status of your women.
Look at how much the world likes you.

The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
Who said it was wrong and why?
Is it wrong?
If homosexuality was wrong then why would God afflict people with the condition - since it is now well understood that homosexuality is not about choice but about genes.

I think (if you claim to be a christian) that you need to read your bible a bit more, it is littered with claims that the passages within it are the word of god, transcribed by men. In that sense it is not subject the the foul-ability of man...

The first reference to Homosexuality being wrong was by Moses on Mount Sinai (sp?) this was during his direct correspondence with Yahweh.

OSU (Oregon State University), released a 5 year study on homosexual pigs recently (1 in 10 are gay). They found it was a chemical imbalance in the brain and even found a way to treat it. That would put it roughly on the same level as Alcoholism (which is also a sin) or Bi-Polar syndrome. The far left went nuts when they heard this which I thought was hilarious. What's wrong Rossie, I thought you liked science?

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@Reagaknight,

Homosexuality is found in less than 2% of the human population.

Anything transcribed by man is fallible.
The ONLY thing ever given directly from God to Man are the Ten Commandments.
Everything else is man's interpretation.
Even the Gospels were written by Disciples many many years after the death of Christ.

Next - ALL of the Old Testament was passed on via ORAL TRADITION through the Rabbis - generation after generation. The Torah was actually codified many years after the death of Christ. Do you think that any word of mouth tradition will pass information on perfectly generation after generation? I think not. I think the stories changed with the times.

As for Islam - my favorite issue is with Alcohol. Muslims are not allowed to drink alcohol. Why not? Was it the word of God or was it something Muhammad put into the mouth of God?

Here is the story behind alcohol

The Religion of Islam - Alcohol (part 2 of 2): The Mother of Every Evil

Supposedly Muhammad also got pissed off that men would come to Mosque drunk and he wanted to stop it. It was Muhammad's opinion that alcohol is bad and not that of God. Therefore it is the word of Muhammad and not the Word of God.

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@z0z0,

z0z0;13557 wrote:

Anything transcribed by man is fallible.
The ONLY thing ever given directly from God to Man are the Ten Commandments.
Everything else is man's interpretation.
Even the Gospels were written by Disciples many many years after the death of Christ.

Next - ALL of the Old Testament was passed on via ORAL TRADITION through the Rabbis - generation after generation. The Torah was actually codified many years after the death of Christ. Do you think that any word of mouth tradition will pass information on perfectly generation after generation? I think not. I think the stories changed with the times.

NOPE

why is it that many agnostics know more about the Bible then most Christians? :dunno:

FROM WIKI

Old Testament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to most Bible scholars, the Old Testament was composed between the 5th century BC and the 2nd century BC, though parts of it, such as parts of the Torah, and the Song of Deborah (Judges 5), probably date back much earlier.

but I'm sure you know more then the collective experts in Judaeo Christian Theology...

And about the stance of Infoulability of the Bible by Christians and the Church

2 Timothy 3:16

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

2 Peter 1:21

21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

And we'll finish off with a nice warning to Christians from the bible about changing the stuff within it

2 Peter 3:15-16

15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

I need to start counting how many times a week I have to quote the bible to it's own followers...

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@SWORD of GOD,

Suddenly you decide to take the Church's word that the Bible is infallible? Most people on this site have repetedly said that while they are Christian the do not agree with the Catholic Church, mainly because it has a history for being obscure and arcane.

Quote:

According to most Bible scholars, the Old Testament was composed between the 5th century BC and the 2nd century BC, though parts of it, such as parts of the Torah, and the Song of Deborah (Judges 5), probably date back much earlier.

And they simply invented everything in the Bible at that time? How do you think the story of Abraham was told? How about Adam and Eve? These were not contemporary to these periods.

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@SWORD of GOD,

no you're right, they weren't. ZOZO said it wasn't compiled and codified until well after the death of Christ, that's what I was debunking by my post.

And I didn't say I agreed the Bible was infoulable. What I was saying was that the Bible itself says that the Bible is infoulable (meaning that a goup of people can't realisity say they believe the bible but yet disagree with it and not be hypocrites). Notice I didn't quote one statement given by the Catholic Church, What was quoted was the Christian Scripture, which transcends the reformation.

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@SWORD of GOD,

The Bible as most of us know it was compiled by early popes to fit in their agendas. Popehood (<- not sure if you can write it like this) was a position filled normally by political-religious men, who abused of their power more than trying to aide the christian populace. There was even a women pope, historically it was one of the most corrupt stations in the CC due to its almost absolute power over the faith. The CC's total fortune is valued in arround 4.2 billion dollars, given the almost fact that the men who controlled this fortune over the ages were extremely corrupt and set on defending their views, AKA Inquisition, Counter-Reform, ect... Wouldn't it be possible for them to destroy what didn't interest them, they did it to other cultures and faiths, what is to keep them from subjecting their own to such treatment?

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Prophet "Muhammad" (PBUH) in the Bible

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