If Jesus was God ...

@SWORD of GOD,

I was kicked off a fundamentalist site for not believing that Jesus was not part of the trinity.

They wanted me to believe that Jesus was in the garden of Eden as a part of God.
I preferred to believe that Jesus could not be before His mother was born.
They preferred to see Jesus flitting back and forth through time, impregnating His own mother and fathering Himself. Too strange for me and I am a believer.
Further if Jesus was God then His sacrifice on the cross would be a sham.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;20680 wrote:

Actually my comment had nothing to do with your rejoinder.
It had more to do with His end time prediction, "it is at hand".
He was also wrong about physical resurrection.
There is no physical reality in Heaven only spiritual reality.
His end time goof is understandable only with the fact that anyone who touches the spiritual realm will notice a sense of them wanting us to hurry in our learning of God and good and evil.
This is what makes the prophet hated because he then has no restriction in His desire to show those around Him the right choice or interpretation of law.
This usually gets Him hated by the followers of the status quo.

Regards
DL

To say that Jesus saying His return is at hand, must mean that Jesus was wrong on His prediction is a stretch at best. If Jesus said He would return in two years and did not show you would have an arguement. Jesus knew that certain things would have to occure before His return and He would of known that all of those things would require a great deal of time. A reading of Matthew 24 would give you some insite into that. To draw such a solid conclusion on those words of Christ requires that you ignore most of what Christ told His disciples in Matthew 24. When you start picking and choosing Scripture in this way it is a given you will never get it right. You cannot make broad statements without considering all the things Jesus has told us. Jesus stated that His coming would occure after Daniels prophecy, and Jesus knew this prophecy would only happen after a third Jewish temple was built. We are still waiting for that temple, and I am aware that the Jews do have plans for just such a building, yet it is still in the future. In the time of Christ there was only the second temple, and Jesus knew that one had to be destroyed first before the third could be built. And the second temple took about 40 years to build. Also Jesus knew all the jews would be driven out of their land before work on such a temple would begin. Yes His return is at hand, but to make such a broad statement that Jesus was wrong requires that you read more into His statement than is there. And it requires you ignore all of Christ other statements about the time of the end.

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@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;20681 wrote:

I was kicked off a fundamentalist site for not believing that Jesus was not part of the trinity.

They wanted me to believe that Jesus was in the garden of Eden as a part of God.
I preferred to believe that Jesus could not be before His mother was born.
They preferred to see Jesus flitting back and forth through time, impregnating His own mother and fathering Himself. Too strange for me and I am a believer.
Further if Jesus was God then His sacrifice on the cross would be a sham.

Regards
DL

And yet Scripture tells us Jesus created all things, how could that be? Scripture tells us Jesus even created the world. And when God created man He said let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likness, who was God speaking to. Because the Bible tells us God created all things alone and by Himself.

1 Reply

@Campbell34,

Campbell34;20772 wrote:

And yet Scripture tells us Jesus created all things, how could that be? Scripture tells us Jesus even created the world. And when God created man He said let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likness, who was God speaking to. Because the Bible tells us God created all things alone and by Himself.

It indicates God as the creator, not Jesus.
If Jesus was God it would mean impregnating His own mother, Mary.
No thanks.

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@SWORD of GOD,

Jesus was not called God in the Bible. He was called God by those false teachers. Give me Bible quotations that says He is God and I will explain to you the truth.....

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

To Greatest Iam,

Jesus is not God in the Bible but He is with God in the beginning and all things was made thru Him....... He is the Word made flesh.....

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;20795 wrote:

It indicates God as the creator, not Jesus.
If Jesus was God it would mean impregnating His own mother, Mary.
No thanks.

The Bible clearly states that Jesus created all things, there are some groups like the Watchtower Society who do not believe this yet this group has changed many of the verses in their Bible in order to get their Bible to agree with their doctrine, not the other way around.

The Bible clearly tells you that Jesus did not impregnate Mary, and this is why you need to study the Bible closer. For in Mathew 1:20 the angle told Joseph that which was conceived in Mary is from the Holy Ghost. The Bible clearly tells you this.

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@chico,

chico;20856 wrote:

To Greatest Iam,

Jesus is not God in the Bible but He is with God in the beginning and all things was made thru Him....... He is the Word made flesh.....

Jesus is God and that is why Thomas told Jesus in John 20:28 "My Lord and my God!" and then in verse 29 Jesus tells us anyone who believes this will be called blessed. I believe Jesus and Thomas.
The Bible tells you in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Only in the Watchtower Bible do you find that verse with an inserted a. Which would suggest that Jesus Christ was somehow a lesser God. This kind of thinking comes only from the watchtower society and other occult groups.

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@chico,

chico;20853 wrote:

Jesus was not called God in the Bible. He was called God by those false teachers. Give me Bible quotations that says He is God and I will explain to you the truth.....

Well perhaps you consider Thomas of the New Testament a false teacher, yet in John 20:28 Thomas clearly tells Jesus that He is his Lord and His God. And in the very next verse Jesus tells us any who believe this in the future will be called blessed.

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@Greatest I am cv,

Greatest I am;20795 wrote:

It indicates God as the creator, not Jesus.
If Jesus was God it would mean impregnating His own mother, Mary.
No thanks.

The Bible indicates in the New Testament that Jesus created all things. You can see this in Hebrews 1:2 And in the Old Testament it Indicates the Father created all things. This is a big problem for the watchtower society, because they dont know how to resolve this. Yet for the Christian this is no problem at all, because Christians understand the three in one God, the Society does not.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;12984 wrote:

calm down

Wanna call Muslims xtreme? In the new testament Jesus criticizes the pharisees for not stoning their children, uses as an analogy the then common practice of beating slaves, Paul in Romans says after the crucifixion that gays should still be killed. Paul makes sexist remarks about women in the name of god, and gives guidelines for slavery.

The only reason Christianity isn't as bad as Islam when it comes to human rights is that Christian Churches dine buffet style from the table of theology.

And as a notice

I'm not sure why anyone is afraid they are gonna be threatened in this thread. This forum does not tolerate threats of the physical nature. If anyone does this they'll find significant trouble when they try to log in...

I would say we see more Christians giving aid around the world and helping the down and out, and I have yet to see a christian strap a bomb to his chest and setting it off in the middle of non believers. I have Christian friends who have spent much of their lives trying to help over seas while at the same time in that same area of the world the Moslems riot and try burning or tearing down hosiptals built there to help the poor. And they justify their actions all in the name of Allah. All over the world we see these actions occuring. It appears to me, much of the trouble is founded in a religion that values land, more than a human life.

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@SWORD of GOD,

Man is God, always has been always will be. He created God in his own likeness. Uses the bible (written by men) to suit his needs / justifications.
There is nothing wrong with believing in God, its just that its in your head and that's OK. You believe so its real to you, not to me! All gods are the same, only different names forms, beliefs, none are wrong, none are right.
They all use God to defend their beliefs, which is sometimes wrong.
In religeous wars both sides believe God is on their side. Who says? certainly not God. 'So keep the faith man! if its your thang'

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

Campbell34,

Pls refer to Mark 10:17 , the young man called Jesus 'GOOD TEACHER'. What does Jesus said? Jesus said "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? NO ONE IS GOOD BUT GOD ALONE'. Good is for God alone, do you think Jesus will accept what Thomas said in John 20.28? Jesus will rebuke Thomas if Thomas said it directly to Him. Thomas did not directly said to Jesus 'MY Lord and my God'. Thomas was referng to 2 entity, the Father and to Jesus....

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@couchp,

couchp;20907 wrote:

Man is God, always has been always will be. He created God in his own likeness. Uses the bible (written by men) to suit his needs / justifications.
There is nothing wrong with believing in God, its just that its in your head and that's OK. You believe so its real to you, not to me! All gods are the same, only different names forms, beliefs, none are wrong, none are right.
They all use God to defend their beliefs, which is sometimes wrong.
In religeous wars both sides believe God is on their side. Who says? certainly not God. 'So keep the faith man! if its your thang'

All Gods are not the same, and you could only make a statement like that because you just don't know. Maybe you spend time in a main line Christian church where you would of learned little about God because most of the ministers are more politically correct then Biblically correct, but the God of the Bible is different. He had men write His Words and we know these Words are true because the God of the Bible speaks of the future before the future happens. He has told us in detail what is going to happen on the earth and much of this detail we can already see happening. If man alone wrote this Book we could all be having a good laught right now, but because it was inspired by the real God, few who understand are laughing.

1 Reply

@chico,

chico;20908 wrote:

Campbell34,

Pls refer to Mark 10:17 , the young man called Jesus 'GOOD TEACHER'. What does Jesus said? Jesus said "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? NO ONE IS GOOD BUT GOD ALONE'. Good is for God alone, do you think Jesus will accept what Thomas said in John 20.28? Jesus will rebuke Thomas if Thomas said it directly to Him. Thomas did not directly said to Jesus 'MY Lord and my God'. Thomas was referng to 2 entity, the Father and to Jesus....

Jesus asked that question because it had an obvious answer. Jesus was good, because Jesus was GOD.

I don't know what Bible your reading, but Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and SAID UNTO HIM, My LORD AND MY GOD. Thomas without question was speaking to Jesus. "SAID UNTO HIM"
Jesus not only accepted what Thomas said, He told Thomas all who believe this will be called blessed. There was no rebuke of Thomas by Jesus just the oppsite.

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@SWORD of GOD,

Campbell34,

You answered "Jesus asked that question because it had an obvious answer. Jesus was good, because Jesus was GOD." Jesus is refering to the Father who is good not to Him. Did Jesus said He is God? Jesus in His ministry did not said He is God. You are blinded my brother.....

You also answered "I don't know what Bible your reading, but Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and SAID UNTO HIM, My LORD AND MY GOD. Thomas without question was speaking to Jesus. "SAID UNTO HIM"
Jesus not only accepted what Thomas said, He told Thomas all who believe this will be called blessed. There was no rebuke of Thomas by Jesus just the oppsite."

In the Greek original text, there is no "and said unto Him". These are words added to the original text and this is very dangerous. Pls refer to 1Cor 4:6 and Apo 22:19. We must leave according to the scriptures and we should not add nor take away the words.....

1 Reply

@chico,

chico;21054 wrote:

Campbell34,

You answered "Jesus asked that question because it had an obvious answer. Jesus was good, because Jesus was GOD." Jesus is refering to the Father who is good not to Him. Did Jesus said He is God? Jesus in His ministry did not said He is God. You are blinded my brother.....

You also answered "I don't know what Bible your reading, but Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and SAID UNTO HIM, My LORD AND MY GOD. Thomas without question was speaking to Jesus. "SAID UNTO HIM"
Jesus not only accepted what Thomas said, He told Thomas all who believe this will be called blessed. There was no rebuke of Thomas by Jesus just the oppsite."

In the Greek original text, there is no "and said unto Him". These are words added to the original text and this is very dangerous. Pls refer to 1Cor 4:6 and Apo 22:19. We must leave according to the scriptures and we should not add nor take away the words.....

Jesus on countless occasions pointed to the fact that He was God, this is the reason the Jews often sought to stone Him to death. Now the Jews understood what Jesus was saying even if you don't. If Jesus was just refering to the Father the Jews never would of picked up those stones, but the Jews knew that Jesus was speaking of Himself. When Jesus said I and the Father are one the Jews picked up stones to try and kill Him again. In John 14:6-9 Jesus tells Philip why do you say show us the Father? Then Jesus states, if you have seen me then you have seen the Father. Christians do not have a problem with Jesus statement, we believe it.

Thomas was only speaking to Jesus in that room, if you say Thomas suddenly ignored Jesus and began speaking of the Father, it would be you that would be adding to the Scripture, and if he was speaking of the Father the text would of pointed that out. The Greek word in question is (AUTWI) which means ("to him") Reading from that version it would be stated. Thomas answered and said (TO HIM) MY LORD AND MY GOD. The words (said unto Him) as compared to said (to Him) changes nothing, and the meaning remains the same, even if it does not agree with your doctrine or belief. There is a time in ones life when you have to decide if you are going to believe the written Word, or if you are going to believe what you have been told. I believe the written Word, and that is why I'm a Christian.

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@SWORD of GOD,

Campbell34,

Show me that 'AUTWI' is in the original Greek text....Did Jesus said He is God? Show me the Bibel text. Do not presume....

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

Campbell34,

Below is my faith;

1. Jesus is not only man. Jesus is the Word made flesh. Thru Him anything that was made was not made w/out Him ref to John 1.1-3...
2. Jesus came from God And if God is Spirit as preached by Jesus in John chap 4 then Jesus before He became flesh is in the form fo God (Spirit form), refer to Phil 2.6...
3. There is only one God the Father 1Cor 8.6...
4. Jesus is not yet done in building the Church, it is still in the process of building but not yet completed ref to Ephe 2.20..
5. Baptism is teaching the words that Jesus wanted us to know/follow. Baptism in water (H2O) is not anymore practice, ref to 1Cor 1.14-17...
6. If Christian die, his spirit will be with Jesus, ref to Phil 1.23-24
7. We will be saved by grace thru faith ref to Ephe 2.8...
8. The Father is greater than Jesus, ref to John 14.28...
9. Jesus will come again together with the Old Testament saints and the dead in Christ in the last days ref to 1Thes 4.17 and Jude 14...
10. God is everywhere ref to Ephe 4.6

I am not a member of any religious organization yet. Many of their teachings does not conforme to the Bible. I said ALL Christian denominations.... I am still searching and hopefully help build many people in the Church of God....

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@chico,

chico;21104 wrote:

Campbell34,

Show me that 'AUTWI' is in the original Greek text....Did Jesus said He is God? Show me the Bibel text. Do not presume....

I was not presuming I had already researched that and found that most accepted that Word in the greek.

From a purely grammatical point of view, it seems highly unlikely that Thomas was addressing anyone but Jesus. AUTWI ("to him") no doubt refers to Jesus, since it is the indirect object of APEKRIOH ("answered') and EIPEN ("said"). The only person in the context whom Thomas could have "answered" is Jesus, who in the previous verse said, "Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Donot doubt but believe." This being the case, it is also important to understand also that ho Kurios mou kai ho oeos mou is a direct statement. That statement came from Greg Gunter.

The problem you have with AUTWI is that it does not agree with your belief system, so you must try and get that verse to read differently.

Now the N.T. states that Jesus made all things, yet in the Old Testament, the Father states He made all things alone and by Himself. Now could you explain to me which one of them made all things?

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