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If Jesus was God ...

 
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 09:27 pm
@markx15,
markx15;57079 wrote:
I honestly don't know what I am. So I prefer to say I am nothing.


Well if you believe in a god(s) but don't follow religion that would make you either a theist or a deist.
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 07:34 am
@markx15,
markx15;57071 wrote:
...

Yes I haven't read the q'uran, but I have read from the q'uran, though I find it appalling the complete disregard for women, by placing them at the same level as supposed slave, for example:
[2:178] O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.

RK translation Sura 1-4

As you can see that is definatly not a biased website, as you may check for yourself, it was the first option from googleing: the quran english. That is only one example, if you need more I can get them, but this way you can properly refute, one at a time.



The website you refer to for translating the Noble Quran is not really an Islamic website. It belongs to a man named Dr. Rashad Khalifa, who's a biochemist and he has invented a new false faith. His followers consider him a messenger from God!!

Here I quote from Wikipedia about Dr. Rashad Khalifa (the owner of the website you refer to):
Rashad Khalifa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
"Khalifa immigrated to the United States in 1959, where he earned a Ph.D in biochemistry. He became a naturalized U.S. citizen, living in Tucson, Arizona.

"Khalifa worked as a science adviser for the Libyan government for about one year, after which he worked as a chemist for the United Nations Industrial Development Organization, then became a senior chemist in Arizona's State Office of Chemistry in 1980. Khalifa's son Sam Khalifa played Major League Baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

He founded the religious group called United Submitters International (USI), a group which considers itself to be the true Islam, but prefers not to use the terms "Muslim" or "Islam," instead using the English equivalents of the Arabic: "Submitter" or "Submission." [SIZE="3"]Submitters believe Khalifa was a messenger of God[/SIZE].

Specific beliefs of the USI include the dedication of all worship practices to God alone, upholding the Qur'an alone, and rejecting the traditional hadith and sunnah as fabrications and lies attributed to Muhammad by his enemies. For many years he attended Masjid Tucson in Arizona."



So, whenever you want to get information about Islam and Quran please use authentic Islamic sources/websites.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:53 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
Then could you please provide one for me, as I have seemingly been uncapable of finding one.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 07:22 am
@markx15,
markx15;57137 wrote:
Then could you please provide one for me, as I have seemingly been uncapable of finding one.


Here are some informative links about Islam:

A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran

The Religion of Islam (It is a web site for people of various faiths who seek to understand Islam and Muslims. It contains a lot of brief, yet informative articles about different aspects of Islam.) The Religion of Islam - Home Page

Islamic Invitation Centre Islamic Invitation Centre - for audio talks, speeches, lectures, converts and FAQ on Islam

Translations of the Qur'an USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

Commentary and Explanation of the Quran (Tafsir) Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Commentary and Explanation of the Quran (Tafsir) http://www.theholybook.org/index.php/content/section/1/2/

Translations of Authentic Hadeeth (Authentic sayings of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 08:05 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
[SIZE="3"]The TRUTH About The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them)[/SIZE]


“The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was but a Messenger of Allah (God), and His word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him.” (Quran, 4:171)

"Truly, the likeness of Jesus with ALLAH (God) is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." [Quran 3:59]

'[157] And because of their (Jews) saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Isa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) (peace be upon them))
[158] But Allah raised him ('Isa (Jesus)) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he (peace be upon him) is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.' (Quran 4:157-158)

'[171] O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.' (Quran 4:171)


"I (Jesus) have come to you (Jews) with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by ALLAH’s
(God's) leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by ALLAH’s (God's) leave." [Quran 3:49].


“Indeed, the angels said: ‘O Mary! Allah (God) gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in this world and the Hereafter, and he shall be among those brought near [to Allah]. He will speak to humankind in the cradle and in manhood, and he is of the righteous.” (Quran, 3:45)

“And indeed Allah (God) gave Moses the Book [Torah], and after him We sent Messengers in succession. We (Allah) gave Jesus son of Mary clear proofs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit [Angel Gabriel].” (Quran, 2:87)
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2008 09:36 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
[SIZE="3"]The Story of Jesus & His Mother (peace be upon them)
In the Noble Quran
[/SIZE]



[Quran 3: 35-64]

003.035 (Remember) When a woman (wife) of Imran said: My Lord! surely I vow to Thee what is in my womb, to be devoted (to Thy service); accept therefore from me, surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing.
003.036 So when she brought forth, she said: My Lord! Surely I have brought it forth a female-- and Allah knew best what she brought forth-- and the male is not like the female, and I have named it Mariam (Mary), and I commend her and her offspring into Thy protection from the accursed Shaitan (Satan).
003.037 So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing, and gave her into the charge of Zakariya; whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food. He said: O Mariam! whence comes this to you? She said: It is from Allah. Surely Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure.
003.038 There did Zakariya pray to his Lord; he said: My Lord! grant me from Thee good offspring; surely Thou art the Hearer of prayer.
003.039 Then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: That Allah gives you the good news of Yahya (John) verifying a Word from Allah, and honorable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones.
003.040 He said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to me, and old age has already come upon me, and my wife is barren? He said: even thus does Allah what He pleases.
003.041 He said: My Lord! appoint a sign for me. Said He: Your sign is that you should not speak to men for three days except by signs; and remember your Lord much and glorify Him in the evening and the morning.
003.042 And when the angels said: O Mariam! surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the world.
003.043 O Mariam! Keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.
003.044 This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Mariam in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.
003.045 When the angels said: O Mariam, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa (Jesus) son of Mariam, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
003.046 And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.
003.047 She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
003.048 And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Torah and the Injeel (Gospel).
003.049 And (make him) a messenger to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
003.050 And a verifier of that which is before me of the Torah and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
003.051 Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
003.052 But when Isa (Jesus) perceived unbelief on their part, he said: Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones (Muslims).
003.053 Our Lord! We believe in what Thou hast revealed and we follow the messenger, so write us down with those who bear witness.
003.054 And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners.
003.055 And when Allah said: O Isa (Jesus), I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.
003.056 Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.
003.057 And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust.
003.058 This (which) We recite to you of the communications and the wise reminder.
003.059 Surely the likeness of Isa (Jesus) is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
003.060 (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.
003.061 But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.
003.062 Most surely this is the true explanation, and there is no god but Allah; and most surely Allah-- He is the Mighty, the Wise.
003.063 But if they turn back, then surely Allah knows the mischief-makers.
003.064 Say: O followers of the Book (Christians & Jews)! Come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 02:57 am
@SWORD of GOD,
Getting bored yet? No one is actually reading these posts,...you do know that right?
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 08:31 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;58386 wrote:
Getting bored yet? No one is actually reading these posts,...you do know that right?


Smart people are -for sure- reading them with open minds and open hearts. However, my posts seem to attract you to respond! maybe you are scared that the Truth is already demolishing your shaking faith !

Keep reading my coming posts.

Have a nice day.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 02:40 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;58392 wrote:
Smart people are -for sure- reading them with open minds and open hearts. However, my posts seem to attract you to respond! maybe you are scared that the Truth is already demolishing your shaking faith !

Keep reading my coming posts.

Have a nice day.


Shaking what faith? I have none, nor need any.

I may respond but I haven't read them for along time, you just seem to regurgitate the same old stuff over and over again, that's why I asked if you were bored.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 03:05 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;58409 wrote:
Shaking what faith? I have none, nor need any.

I may respond but I haven't read them for along time, you just seem to regurgitate the same old stuff over and over again, that's why I asked if you were bored.


If you are capable of answering/refuting any of my questions/statements (I posted in this thread) with an intellactual response supported by evidences then I will stop.

I post my questions and statements to make you think seriously and encourage you to read your bible with open free mind. You need to know from where you got your faith!

Take care.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 03:08 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;58411 wrote:
If you are capable of answering/refuting any of my questions/statements I posted in this thread with an intellactual response supported by evidences then I will stop.

I post my questions and statements to make you think seriously and try to read the bible with open free mind. You need to know from where you got your faith!


I have read the bible, and believe ne never have i read such a bigoted load of crap in all my life.

AGAIN!! I have no faith, I am an athiest and very happy in the knowledge there is no afterlife, thats why i make the most of what I have now and don't rely on a 'heaven' to fulfil my life.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 10:07 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;58412 wrote:
I have read the bible, and believe ne never have i read such a bigoted load of crap in all my life.

AGAIN!! I have no faith, I am an athiest and very happy in the knowledge there is no afterlife, thats why i make the most of what I have now and don't rely on a 'heaven' to fulfil my life.


I want you to examine all my quoted biblical passages and statements posted in this thread and check them if they are in the bible or not. I want you to prove me a liar if you are honest and truthful..

If you are an atheist -as you calim- then I wonder why you keep visiting this thread and reading my posts all this time till today !!!

Don't let arrogance and false media stereotyping prevent you from seeking the Truth wherever it is!


Have a nice day.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2008 08:57 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;58428 wrote:
I want you to examine all my quoted biblical passages and statements posted in this thread and check them if they are in the bible or not. I want you to prove me a liar if you are honest and truthful..

If you are an atheist -as you calim- then I wonder why you keep visiting this thread and reading my posts all this time till today !!!

Don't let arrogance and false media stereotyping prevent you from seeking the Truth wherever it is!


Have a nice day.


I am sure thay are in the bible, and I am sure they took hours of your life to type. Fortunately for me I have no faith, so I don't need to massage my imaginary guy in the sky's ego. I have better things to do with my life,...like live it.

Don't let arrogance and false media stereotyping prevent you from seeking the Truth wherever it is!

Works both ways my friend,....remember keep that mind of yours open like you keep telling me to do.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Aug, 2008 01:53 pm
@Numpty,
[SIZE="3"]The Hidden Story of Biblical JESUS[/SIZE]


A Must watch Documentary TV Film

Watch it here: The Hidden Story of Jesus

CHANNEL4 Tuesday 25 December 2007 8.30pm



Theologian Dr. Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 03:54 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
[SIZE="3"]World's Oldest Bible Rejects The Resurrection![/SIZE]


July 23, 2008 | by Christopher Nickson
World's Oldest Bible Online - Computing News - Digital Trends
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 02:27 am
@SWORD of GOD,
[SIZE="3"]Ideas of Paul's Christianity Borrowed from Mithra and Pagans ![/SIZE]

A must watch documentary 9 minutes clip (from The Hidden Story of Jesus)


Watch it here YouTube - Ideas of Paul's Christianity borrowed from Mithra and Pagans


Paul and his followers borrowed beliefs from pagans and other religion, to win converts. He went against what Jesus taught while he was on earth, and preached his own version of it which contradict the message of Christ.

Compare what Jesus said about following the law and what Paul said concerning it.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19

Paul's dreams, however, have broken commandments right and left. There is so much of what Jesus did during his lifetime that his followers have now totally neglected, not because Jesus told them to break the commandments, but because Paul would later tell them to break them upon the authority of the visions he was receiving.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law - though not being myself under the law - that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law - not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ - that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." (I Corinthians. 9:19-25)
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 09:35 am
@SWORD of GOD,
Here is a must read article in a jewish website stating and proving that Christians have indeed distorted and mistranslated the Old Testament (and its prophecies) to satisfy their desires:

click here > Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus | The difference between Judaism and Christianity


Also, this from a Jewsih website discussing "Messiah : The Criteria"

Judge for yourself:

Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?

The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".

Here is the article "Was Jesus The Messiah?"
http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html
0 Replies
 
dattaswami cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2008 02:07 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;12910 wrote:
If J........d he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

16- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 06:24 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;12910 wrote:
If Jesus was GOD ...

1- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

2- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

3- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

4- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?

5- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"?

6- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

7- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of crucifixion?

8- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?

9- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?

10- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

11- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?

12- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

13- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

14- If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

15- If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

16- If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?



WHY DOES GOD THE FATHER CALL JESUS CHRIST GOD? Especially if the Father is suppose to be His God? (Hebrews 1:8)

IF THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT MADE THE EARTH (ALONE) AND BY (HIMSELF.) WHY DOES THE NEW TESTAMENT TELL US THAT JESUS CHRIST MADE ALL THINGS?

WHEN THE OLD TESTAMENT GOD MADE MAN, WHY DID HE SAY LET (US) MAKE MAN IN (OUR) IMAGE AND IN (OUR) LIKENESS?
WHO IS (US) AND (OUR)?

When Thomas first saw Jesus after His death on the cross, why did Thomas call Jesus Christ, his (LORD, and his GOD?)
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Aug, 2008 06:29 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;12915 wrote:
Was Jesus the first (and only) crucified SAVIOR (as claimed by christians)!?

See this historical document stating that there were 16 crucified SAVIORS before Jesus!

Pagans' saviors :Historical Documents: Kersey Graves: The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Chapter 16: Sixteen Saviors Crucified



16 crucified SAVIORS, and yet only ONE fulfilled the prophecies of the OLD TESTAMENT. And someday you will stand before Him, and you will have to give an account of your activities.
 

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