How can the Father addressed Jesus as God? That phrase was corrupted. I have questioned you where do Jesus get that throne where in Hebrew 12.2 says that Jesus was seated in the right hand of the throne of God... Do Jesus has throne?
Thomas was refering to Jesus as Lord and The Father as God and if not it will contradict with 1Cor8.5....
Jesus is seating in the right hand of the throne of God in Heb 12.2...You do not answer my question.... Where do Jesus get that throne in Heb 1.8? Answer this question......
Well just look at Acts 2:29 to 36. Men brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the partiarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
'he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne' Therefore being by the right hand of God So it is clear that Jesus is sitting in the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrew 1.8 is not the correct translation of the original text, it was corrupted.....
Chico could you please tell me what translation you are reading from because I'm reading from the King James which is based on the majority text. If that is corrupted then God has allowed most of the world to be misled because He can't get his Book right. So please, tell me what translation of the Bible you are reading from? The majority text is made up of thousands of copies that come from many time periods and many nations. And what they have in common is they are all in agreement. So tell me, what is you Bible based on?
If one believes in one part of the Bible they must believe in "ALL" parts of the Bible, if not, why not? It does not matter what "ANYONE" believes; what matters is what is actually contained in the words of the Holy Scripts, due to the fact that it is self professed to be the teachings of God, not man. No matter how much any person tries to "spin" the words contained therein and claim that some people are practicing "polytheism" and they believe in 3 Gods, the actual words of the scripts tell us that there is ONE God consisting of 3 distinct parts which make up the whole ONE true God, all being divine in nature. YOU ARE ALWAYS INSISTING THAT THERE IS ONE GOD CONSISTING OF 3 PERSONS. BUT HOW CAN YOU DEFEND YOUR FAITH IF IT IS NOT WRITTEN, THERE MUST BE FACTS BEFORE YOU CONCLUDE THAT THERE ARE 3 DISTINCT PERSONS.
Notice how "one" is used in the scriptures; Paul said in Romans 12:4, "Just as each of us has one body with many members and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Paul added, "The body is a unit, through it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:12). You can see that one body does not mean only one person, but rather many persons making up one body. SO THE PROBLEM WITH YOU IS YOU TRANSLATED THE MEANING OF PARTS OF THE BODY TO PERSON. PARTS OF THE BODY SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLATED TO PERSON BECAUSE IT IS NOT WRITTEN. IT WAS MERELY STATED AS THOUGH ALL ITS PARTS ARE MANY THEY FORM ONE BODY. DO NOT TRANSLATE PERSON TO PARTS OF THE BODY BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT WORDS.
Jesus taught that two persons are one without losing their individual identity. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Matthew 19:5-6). So anyone can clearly see that one here includes two persons. The same is true with the word of God. WOMAN CAME FROM MAN. THE FIRST HUMAN CREATION OF GOD WAS ADAM AND GOD TOOK ONE OF ADAM'S RIBS AND GOD MADE IT INTO A WOMAN AND BROUGHT HER TO THE MAN. DEFINITELY THE TWO, ADAM AND EVE BECAME HUSBAND AND WIFE AND DEFINITELY ONE FLESH. THIS IS TRUE BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN BUT DO NOT COMPARE THIS TO THE WORD OF GOD BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT FIND IN THE BIBLE THAT THEY ARE TWO DISTINCT PERSON IN ONE BODY.
Jesus prayed that all believers might be one. We read in John 17:20-22. "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one." One in this passage cannot and does not mean only one person. JESUS SAID 'ONE' THEN YOU ARE TELLING US THAT THIS DOES NOT MEAN ONE. WHAT KIND OF REASONING DO YOU HAVE. JESUS SAID ONE AND NO EXPLANATION FROM JESUS AND YET YOU EXPLAIN IT IN BEHALF OF JESUS. WHO WILL I BELIEVE YOU OR JESUS..?Furthermore, Jesus prayed that his followers would be one "AS" (adverb of comparison) HE and His Father are one. "AS" means "in this way", or "in this manner." Therefore God does not mean only one person of God. YOUR ASSUMPTION IS BIGGER THAN THE UNIVERSE GOD HAS MADE...
Paul spoke to the citizens of Athens, and said; "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device" (Acts 17:29). The word Godhead is also found in Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9. It means "Deity, the state of being God or divinity." One God is the same as saying one Deity. The Bible says there is one God (Deity) but never says there is only one person that is deity. The Bible says a husband and wife are one, but they remain two distinct people. All believers are one in Christ (John 17:20) but not one person. If countless billions can be "one" and remain distinct human persons, three divine Beings (The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost) can be one and remain distinct divine persons. Why do you suppose we are commanded to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? (Matthew 28:19) I AM CONFUSED WHY ONLY IN MATTHEW THAT 'BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST' HAS THIS TEXT. I SEARCHED THE BIBLE AND CAN NOT FIND IT IN LUKE, IN MARK AND IN JOHN. I CAME TO BELIEVE THAT THIS TEXT IS ADDITIONAL TO THE ORIGINAL GOSPEL THAT JESUS DISCPLES PROPAGATED. IN MY STUDY OF THE BIBLE THE ONLY CLEAR MESSAGE RE JESUS IS THIS , IN JOHN 20.31 SAYS '..BUT THESE ARE WRITTEN THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT BELIEVING YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME.' FROM MATTHEW TO REVELATION THE CLEAREST MESSAGE THAT THEY PREACHED WAS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND CHRIST OUR LORD. Anyone that denies that Jesus is the Son of God, and has the power of God to forgive sins and now rests on the throne until such time as the end of the days of the gentiles are over and is both Lord and savior are Anti Christ. "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same has not the Father; but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" (1 John 2:22-23). Those who affirm only one person of God but three separate manifestations cannot acknowledge the Son and the Father also are forced to deny that Jesus is not manifest as God, as the scriptures very clearly state. It is just that simple--and is very serious. I BASED MY FAITH IN WHAT PAUL'S SAID IN 1 COR 8.5 ONWARD SAYS..'FOR ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE SO CALLED GODS IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH-AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY GODS AND MANY LORDS-YET FOR US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND FOR WHOM WE EXIST, AND ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND THROUGH WHOM WE EXIST. HOWEVER NOT ALL POSSESS THIS KNOWLEDGE.' PAUL WAS WRITING TO CHRISTIANS AND HE'S TEACHING US TO ACKNOWLEDGE GOD AS THE FATHER AND JESUS AS LORD. I BELIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, CHRIST OUR LORD, HE CAME FROM GOD AND IN THE FORM OF GOD BEFORE HE WAS MADE FLESH. BUT CALLING JESUS GOD IS NOT BIBLICAL ANYMORE AND WILL CONTRADICT TO WHAT PAUL TEACHES US....is heresy.
WE MUST BASED OUR FAITH IN THE TRUE WORDS OF GODS AND DO NOT ASSUME JUST TO SATISFY OUR BELIEF.....
As I said before. Interpretation, Interpretation, Interpretation.
You guys won't convince one another. Your Jesus and your Bible and how you interpret the information inside is a personal journey and should not be forced upon one another.
You are mislead... I believe there are still men and women somewhere out there like me who does believe that Jesus is Lord and the Father is the only true God just like what Paul, Peter, John and other disciples believe. If you believe in that translation then you are mislead just like the others who tried to defend their faith in vein... As I said, Jesus has no throne. It is the Father's throne that Jesus is sitting, then Hebrew 1.8 is not correct because 'YOUR THRONE OH GOD....' contradict to Hebrew 12.2. It should read 'YOUR THRONE OR KINGDOM THAT GOD HAS GIVEN YOU IS FOREVER AND EVER OR EVERLASTING'.
I am also using old King James version, the revised King James version, American Standard version, International version, Todays English version, Bible Society translation of my native language, Jerusalem version of the Bible. I want to buy more translation of the Bible if God's willing.. In this case you will understand the many variation of the translations. There should be no contradictions. If there are contradictions then you should study more to find out what are the correct translations....
You're so 'kewl', Numpty. Has Life always validated your liberalism? Do you really believe it, or is it just a crutch to support inner-weakness? Just curious. For me, you're just too kewl.:damnit:
As I said before. Interpretation, Interpretation, Interpretation.
You guys won't convince one another. Your Jesus and your Bible and how you interpret the information inside is a personal journey and should not be forced upon one another.
It is clear that you fail to rightly divide the word of truth. When anyone reads the words contained in any of the scripts in the entire Bible to make contradiction to any other passage the word has not been rightly divided to bring "edification", as all scripture is by inspiration of God and He would not contradict His own words in revealing truth.
Contradictions were due to the wrong translations of the original text. If only it was translated correctly then who am I to refute the words of God.
What do the words in Matthew which speak of the need for one to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, contradict in any passage of scripture? None. Because other passages contain script that informs us that we must be Baptized in the name of Christ for the remission of sins, does not preclude the need for being baptized in the name of the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.(In the name infers by the authority given by or with the approval of, much like a police man saying, stop in the name of the law).
Why does Jesus commanded them to baptize in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit if it does not preclude the need of being baptize in that way? Jesus must have commanded to baptize in the name of the Son clearly and consisely. But the apostles clearly baptize in the name of Jesus only. You know what, Peter and the rest of apostles were assigned to the Jews which pratice water baptism while Paul was assigned to the Gentiles which does not practice water baptism. Paul said in 1 Cor 1.17 'FOR CHRIST DID NOT SEND ME TO BAPTIZE BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL...' From Mark to John, Jesus commaded his disciples to preach the Gospel...also in Mathew but not baptize in the name of ...
No where does the scriptures claim that Jesus Christ is God the Father, no where, only that the Word became flesh, the word was Christ. The scriptures tell us that He is the Son of God Almighty and is equal in power, authority, and rule until the times of the Gentiles are complete then the authority is to be given back to the Father. It does say that "ALL AUTHORITY" in heaven and on earth are given to Jesus (Matt:28:18), it does say that Jesus was in the form of God and equal with God, Jesus in John 14.28 said that the Father is greater than Him and I therefore conclude that the Father and Jesus is not equal. the word equal in Phil 2.6-7 pertain to their nature which mean God is Spirit and because Jesus came from God then Jesus before he was made flesh was also a Spirit... and that He lowered Himself by taking the form or likeness of man (Philippians 2:6-7), it does not say that Jesus was created in the beginning but was the first born , and He was, as Jesus was the one that did the creating He could not have created Himself (John 1:1), it does say that Jesus was made in form of the invisible God in the flesh (Col 1:15-16), a God whom no man had seen with the exception of Jesus (John 1:18).
'and the Word was made flesh' Who made the Word flesh?????
Thus to conclude, no the Bible does not say that Jesus was God the Father(Spirit, that no man can see) who is indeed the God of All, but it does say that He was God in the Flesh and in Him(Christ) dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9), fullness means complete in all Power, equality, and reign of rule. [B]I am asking you before where in the Bible can we read that Jesus was God in the flesh? But you have not yet replied to my question...[/B]One must understand that the Bible is the product of God, and that God tells us not to add nor to take away from it ( Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, Matt. 5:18, Gal. 1:8-9, and Rev. 22:18). It so happens that the words which you have "doubt" about, are indeed contained in "all" translations of scripture that have been the product of "CANNONIZATION", the process in which the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament have been validated as to the original content and authorship claimed.
I see.... that is why you worship idols made of stones and woods?
One more statement concerning the "Deity" and "Lordship" of the Christ Jesus, there is no clearer statement to close with than the one made in Revelations 1:8......."I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING, SAITH THE LORD, WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME.........THE ALMIGHTY."
Alpha and Omega is for God alone. In Rev 1.8 says 'I AM ALPHA AND THE OMEGA SAYS THE LORD GOD' This is clear to me.... that YOUR ASSUMPTION S ARE BIGGER THAN THE UNIVERSE THAT GOD HAVE CREATED.....
Its real simple, there is no "interpretation" required, the scriptures lead the way, man follows. Man does not mold the scriptures around their lives, man must mold their lives around the scriptures. None of what I have presented is "Opinion", it all is scripture, simple, plain and easily read. It's man that complicates the simple with the complexity of his mind, that is determined to justify his "tradition" by molding the scriptures to fit.
When in reality there is but:
ONE BODY=THE CHURCH=UNITY OF RELATIONSHIP(Matt 16:18, Romans 12:5, 1Cor.12:12)
ONE SPIRIT=THE HOLY SPIRIT=UNITY OF REVELATION(John 16:14-15, Acts 2:38)
ONE HOPE=HEAVEN=UNITY OF REWARD(Eph.1:17-19,Colossians 1:3-6, Titus 1:1)
ONE FAITH=THE NEW TESTAMENT OF GRACE=UNITY OF DOCTRINE (1Peter4:11, John16;13, James1:25, 2Peter1:3)
ONE BAPTISM=IMMERSION FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS=UNITY OF SALVATION (Acts2:38, 1Cor12:13, Gal.3:26-28, Rom.6:3-4)
ONE GOD=THE FATHER=UNITY OF THE OBJECT OF ALL OUR WORSHIP (1Cor.8:6, 1John3:1-3, Romans3:30)
ONE LORD=JESUS THE CHRIST=UNITY OF AUTHORITY (Matthew 28:18)
All of Satan's "deceivers" have one common theme; their foundation for survival are dependent upon "ERROR", human error, being accepted. Without error there would be "NOTHING" on which these attacks could feed. Error bing taught, believed and obeyed is the source of Satan's attack. Thus by proxy, Satan is ever vigilant to ensure that error remains in power (and divisions occur). Secularly, governmentally, socially and religiously. Nothing puts Satan and his proxies to flight as does the truth of Jesus Christ as taught by his apostles (John 8:31, Acts 13:8-11). Consider how when tempted Jesus often said, "IT IS WRITTEN", which put Satan to flight (Matt. 4:1-11).
And taken in context of the message presented, as proven by the verse just preceding verse 8, whom do we find the scriptures speaking about? Apparently another concept that you are "unfamiliar" as you "cherry pick" verses away from the context of the whole chapter. (vs.7 of Rev 1) reads as follows,"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also that PIERCED him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
To conclude that the scriptures are not addressing the return of Jesus and his judgment upon man, is not rightly dividing the word. "YOU" say that the title of almighty is reserved for God the Father, but the scriptures present another fact of record (they share this title, even though there is one God, all authority has been given to the Christ, Matt. 28:18, also Rev. 21:6 makes reference to this fact). Are we to believe "YOUR" opinion pulled away from the scriptures by picking one verse and giving it your own interpretation instead of accepting the self interpreted writings of this chapter? We must "REMEMBER" the prophecies of God are not for "private" interpretation (2 Peter 1:20), "Knowing this first, that NO prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." And the Christ is again addressed as the Alpha and Omega in Rev. 22:12-13, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "I am" Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. RD
IN YOUR OPINION. you fail to grasp the concept. YOU believe the way in which you read the bible to be correct and not interpreted for your own gratification. Guess what? So does chico, he thinks exactly the same as you do. Don't be self rightous so as to believe you are only person who undestands the Bible in its entirety and can pass judgment on all hose whose opinions differ from your own.
Truely that way of thinking is for fundamentalist extremists who wish to force their holy ideas onto all who will not listen or want to listen.
Well actually Numpty, you really think more like Chico. The reason I say that is because you both think the Bible is filled with errors, where as I and RedDevil believe it is not. It's not really a question of understanding the Bible, it's more of a question of actually believeing the Bible.
Numpty, rather than argue with Mr.Campbell/Sword of God on logical grounds (you will fail), I suggest you spend time here to study their mindset as I am doing of late. It is truly fascinating and one learns a lot.
