If Jesus was God ...

So you are unable or unwilling to defend your faith with mutualy agreeable concepts? What you have just said further validates by atheism, by the fact that you are unable(or unwilling) to defend your belief with evidence!

Like I said, if you did not disagree with religion in the first place you would not be trying to "bait" someone into a debate played by "your" rules, therefore what you say and "believe" is of no concern to me. RD

What exactly do you think "my rules" are?

Please read the edit of the previous post. RD

i have read your posts, i want to you what you think "My Rules" are.

They are as you have described. Sense you are "unable" to discredit the words "actual" contained in the scriptures "you" want to go outside the source on more even footing, as you called it. The fact is, truth can not be subverted, unless one is "lead" away from it on some tangent based speculative journey. Those, my friend are the rules that you wish to establish, and you are welcome to do so, but "I" do not have to accept them, and I will not. My intention is to defend the "actual" words offered in defense of my faith, not, as I keep pointing out, discredit another's. RD

fine, if you do not wish to continue this debate any further , then so be it!

It is clear that you do not comprehend the concept the the "Godhead", the fact that 3 separate and distinct entities makeup the "ONE TRUE GOD". It is the same God, just existing in three distinct forms. Like water, at normal temperature it is a liquid, below freezing it is ice, a solid, at the boiling point it is in the nature of a Gas or vapor. Yet it is the same thing in all three states of reality in which we interact with it. The concept of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is much the same. As I said before, the term Godhead is mentioned in the Holy Scriptures 3 times (Acts 17:29, Rom.1:20, and Col.2:9 KJV). The scriptures never refer to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, (Godhead) as gods, in the plural nature but always in the single as one.

Consider the very clear and obvious writing of John Chapter One in which it deals with the incarnation of God (becoming flesh), "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"(when you stand with someone you are equal on the same level)......now surely you cannot deny that in very clear and simple language the scriptures in John 1:1 state that the "WORD WAS GOD", these are not my words but the words taken from the Bible. Then in the same chapter we read (John 1:14) again in very clear and simple language, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only "BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. If there is one passage in the Holy Bible that teaches that Jesus the Christ is God, in the flesh and a part of the Godhead, this is it.

Now consider the writings of Paul in Col.1:15-16."Who is the image of the invisible God......For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and earth......". Then we go to the Book of Genesis in 1:26 and read, "And God said let "US" make man in "OUR" image......" Just whom do you say are the "US" and the "OUR" God is referring to? Its true there is only one God, but God is invisible and cannot be seen by man, he had to take the form of Man to interact with man, in times past he only interacted through the Spirit. For you to claim that the Bible does not say that JESUS(THE WORD) is not God is just not so, because the apostle Paul states also that in Jesus rests the fullness of the Godhead, "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (Col 2:9) RD

In John 20:28 Thomas answered and said unto him,(JESUS) (my Lord and my God.) Thomas adressed Jesus directly. Thomas was not speaking to anyone else, but Jesus. And in verse 29 Jesus tells Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Did you notice how there was no rebuke from Jesus because Thomas had mis spoke. The only way you could get Thomas adressing the Father here is if you played word games with the Scriptures.

3 in 1 is not in the Bible. It is only your assumption without any basis. Consider this logic... we are made in the image and likeness of God, now if you are saying that God has 3 separate and distinct entities that make up the One TRue God, are you saying we too have 3 separate and distinct entities within us? Oh Comon.......

You said 'Consider the very clear and obvious writing of John Chapter One in which it deals with the incarnation of God (becoming flesh)'...Where in the Bible you can find 'INCARNATION OF GOD (BECOMING FLESH)'? Your argument is full of assumptions and shows that you are ignorant of the Bible as Peter said in 2Peter3.16 twisting the truth.. John 1.1 means that when the Word was with God the the Word was God together with the Father without any distinction between the Father and Word, God as a whole is called God.

You said 'Now consider the writings of Paul in Col.1:15-16."Who is the image of the invisible God...' So why did you not consider also that we too were made in the image and likeness of the invisible God. But only because of sins we have committed, that image and likeness was erased or not true anymore to us. And this is true only to Jesus Christ because he did not sin.

You said 'Then we go to the Book of Genesis in 1:26 and read, "And God said let "US" make man in "OUR" image......" Just whom do you say are the "US" and the "OUR" God is referring to?' This is long and complicated explanation... Ok... I will just explain it in short and easy way... Jesus said in John 5.26 'FOR AS THE FATHER HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF SO HE HAS GRANTED THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF' In this text, the Son before the creation has no life in himself because he is still in the bossom of the Father. In Proverb 8.24 onward 'WHEN THERE WERE NO DEPTHS I WAS BROUGHT FORTH WHEN THERE WERE NO SPRINGS ABOUNDING THE WATER, BEFORE THE MOUNTAINS HAD BEEN SHAPED, BEFORE THE HILLS, I WAS BROUGHT FORTH...' So the WISDOM or the WORD was with God before the creations. And when creations started, the WISDOM or the WORD was brought forth (making him the only begotten Son of the FAther) In Isaiah 55.11 says 'SO SHALL MY WORD BE THAT GOETH FROM MY MOUTH, IT SHALL NOT RETURN TO ME EMPTY BUT IT SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PURPOSE AND PROSPER IN THE THINGS FOR WHICH I SENT IT' So when the Father has GRANTED the Wisdom or the Word to have life in himself to do His will, God brought forth His Wisdom or the Word. Then in Gen 1.26 God was talking to the Wisdom or to the Word which God granted to have life in himself. But in the end of time the Wisdom or the Word will be subject to God so that God will reign over all 1Cor15.25-28....

We are made in the image of God in the Fact that we also are a spiritual being as is God, with the so called logic that you are using we would be invisible, as the scriptures say that God is invisible (Col 1:15-16), we indeed are the sons of God, but do not have the spirit of God without measure as did the "only begotten". And yes the the scriptures say in very clear and "unmistakable" language......."and God became flesh and dwelt among us" (John chapter 1) as the word "was God" and the "word was the only begotten of God". One does not have to "assume" when it is "WRITTEN"......THAT IS UNLESS "ONE" IS TRYING TO TWIST THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT HIS CONCEPTION OF WHAT "HIS" INDIVIDUAL RELIGION IS AND NOT WHAT GOD IS TELLING HIM. RD

I attended Mass two weekends in a row. WOW. I AM THE MAN. Next stop -- SAINTHOOD.

You do not understand the meaning of the image and likeness of God. Jesus is the image of the unseen God in Heb 1.3. Is Jesus invisible in the eyes of His apostles? and yet you said ."and God became flesh and dwelt among us" (John chapter 1)...' [SIZE="4"]You are twisting the truth. Where can you read that 'GOD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us? You are corrupting the Bible.[/SIZE]

Is the Spirit of the Father not there? God is everywhere. The Father can hear you, can see you and understand you even if you can not see Him. It is only logical that 'MY LORD' refer to Jesus and 'MY GOD' refer to the Father. Just as Paul said in 1Cor8.5 'THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER...AND ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST'. And this was also the belief of Thomas and there should never be contradiction between Thomas belief and Paul's belief. It is only your assumption that Thomas was only speaking to Jesus... If only Jesus is still on earth He will rebuke you....All of the Bible phrases which allegedly said that Jesus is God was corrupted or you only misunderstood the meaning.... Better wake up or it is too late....

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and (THE WORD WAS GOD.)
John 1:14 Tells us that the Word which John 1:1 tells us was god then became flesh.
We are just agreeing with the Scriptures.

Yes, but the text clearly tells us that Thomas was speaking unto Jesus, and not to anyone else. It is not an assumption that Thomas was speaking only to Jesus, the text makes this clear. You are trying to force fit your belief system into wording that will not support it. And the Father has addressed Jesus as God also. The Father speaking of Jesus said, "your throne oh God is forever and ever." It is not logical that the Scripture would have Thomas speaking directly to Jesus, and then he's speaking to the Father. Never in the Scriptures have I ever seen anything worded that way. This is nothing but an attempt to get the Scriptures to agree with your belief system, which they donot. The wording of that verse agrees with the majority text, what wording are you following? What kind of translation are you useing?

How can the Father addressed Jesus as God? That phrase was corrupted. I have questioned you where do Jesus get that throne where in Hebrew 12.2 says that Jesus was seated in the right hand of the throne of God... Do Jesus has throne?

Thomas was refering to Jesus as Lord and The Father as God and if not it will contradict with 1Cor8.5....

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the son he saith, thy throne O God is for ever and ever.

Gods Word is not corrupted, it is your belief system that is.