If Jesus was God ...

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;39736 wrote:

Unlike you -Christians- we Muslims do not speak of our own desires regarding the Religion as Religion is an inspiration sent down to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) from the Creator.

Even The Prophet (pbuh) himself had no role in authoring the Qur'an, he was merely a human messenger, repeating the dictates of the Divine Creator:
"He (Muhammad) does not speak of his own desire. It is no less than an Inspiration sent down to him." [Quran 53:3-4]

Perhaps one of the best description of the Qur'an was given by Ali, the cousin of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) when he expounded upon it as,

"The Book of God. In it is the record of what was before you, the judgment of what is among you, and the prophecies of what will come after you. It is decisive, not a case for levity. Whoever is a tyrant and ignores the Qur'an will be destroyed by God. Whoever seeks guidance from other than it will be misguided. The Qur'an is the unbreakable bond of connection with God; it is the remembrance full of wisdom and the straight path. The Qur'an does not become distorted by tongues. nor can it be deviated by caprices; it never dulls from repeated study; scholars will always want more of it. The wonders of the Qur'an are never ending. Whoever speaks from it will speak the truth, whoever rules with it will be just, and whoever holds fast to it will be guided to the straight path."
[Al-Tirmidhi]

Islam answers all your questions not like corrupted Christianity. The followers of the christianity can not answer even the very simple question about the basics of their corrupted faith (this thread is a good example). They twist words and they use their own desires & self opinions to apologize for the nonsense information and contradictions in the bible.

You are saying exactly what any Christian fundamentalist would say about the Bible. I t too is God inspired and man writen. It too is the end all to everything.

I should tell you that I have some questions for you but you do not answer my questions.
If this is to continue then we will not learn from each other.

If you are interested in discussions then let us try some topics and see where it goes.

I have asked if your God is Perfect and still wait for an answer.
The way I see it is that God is Perfect and as the Bible indicates, all of His works are Perfect. All of His souls are Perfect. All of the world is Perfect.
God cannot lose His Perfection at any time or He would be back slidding.

Is your God as powerful as this or has He created a reality that is not perfect?

I believe that there is only one God. The name I give Him may be the same name you give Him. Lets see if their philosophies are the same.

You say that Islam answers all questions. I have read what you gave me on Perfection and did not make the connection between your words and Perfection. The question remains open.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@markx15,

markx15;39408 wrote:

It is said that there is no diference inbetween the interior and the exterior, but you must first come to your senses about what happens inside before you can turn that into something concrete outside. Didn't Jesus say he would come personally to establish the law upon the Earth? Free yourself from yourself, I can't say what happens next because honestly I have not yet done so myself.

If Jesus was going to establish anything here then He would have done it when He was here.
There is no good reason for Him to wait or cause Himself to have to return. Even by the timetable of God, one of our days equals 1000 years, we have suffered needlessly for two full days. God would not allow this therefor if Jesus was God, He would not allow this also.

He was a prophet and rabbi but to say that He was divine would be to erase any sacrifice that He did for mankind. God cannot suffer and die on a cross.

Also a strange but true notion is that if Jesus was God then He is His own father and His relationship with Mary was one of incest because He would reproduce Himself using His own mother.
Too strange for a God, No?

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;39688 wrote:

We -Muslims- don't use our self opinions and desires to shape our faith or fabricate our religion. Religion is based on what God has said and revealed in his authentic holy scripture and on what his messenger said.

How do you know that your religion is based on what God has said and revealed? How do you know that you have the authentic holy scripture? How do you know that Muhamad is the real messenger of God?

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

Quote:

If Jesus was going to establish anything here then He would have done it when He was here.
There is no good reason for Him to wait or cause Himself to have to return. Even by the timetable of God, one of our days equals 1000 years, we have suffered needlessly for two full days. God would not allow this therefor if Jesus was God, He would not allow this also.

He was a prophet and rabbi but to say that He was divine would be to erase any sacrifice that He did for mankind. God cannot suffer and die on a cross.

Also a strange but true notion is that if Jesus was God then He is His own father and His relationship with Mary was one of incest because He would reproduce Himself using His own mother.
Too strange for a God, No?

You are getting ahead of yourself. There are things is your above post that you couldn't possibly know.

Quote:

God would not allow this

Also, incest is our creation, there is no such limitation in nature. I don't believe that Jesus was divine, not in the sense that God is, but if you compare him to us there is a large margin. He not only taught by words, but also by example. Time is another creation of man, there is only the present, past and future are the present as well. Mankind has already been "saved", we just have to realise it, that is harder than simply accepting the idea, you have to live it, and come to your senses with all your senses. What is 2 thousand years in comparison to eternity? What is suffering compared to happiness?

1 Reply

@markx15,

markx15;39803 wrote:

You are getting ahead of yourself. There are things is your above post that you couldn't possibly know.

Also, incest is our creation,

GIA wrote
Nothing is that was not created by God.

there is no such limitation in nature. I don't believe that Jesus was divine, not in the sense that God is, but if you compare him to us there is a large margin. He not only taught by words, but also by example. Time is another creation of man,

GIA wrote
Alpha and Omega. These are basically religious terms.

there is only the present, past and future are the present as well.

GIA wrote
I will have to tell my grand children that they live in the past as well as here.
I am sure they will understand this concept. Smiles.

Mankind has already been "saved", we just have to realise it, that is harder than simply accepting the idea, you have to live it, and come to your senses with all your senses. What is 2 thousand years in comparison to eternity? What is suffering compared to happiness?

Happiness is desirable.
Suffering is not.

Try not to destroy all the dictionary meaning of words as you reply. It is very confusing.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am cv,

"Say: O People of the Scripture (Jews & Christians)! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him)." (Qur'an)

[SIZE="3"]To Every Christian, Please Ask Yourself...[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]RESSURECTION:[/SIZE]

If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the discovery of the empty tomb differently.

Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb. Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.

Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The other gospels do not mention of an earthquake. Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.

Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels, were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.

Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of money, telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among the Jews until today (according to Matthew).

The other gospels do not report of any such thing.

35. Which narration now is more authentic?

36. Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God saved Him?

37. How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers and the chief priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story of Matthew?

38. Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they believe he was an angel? John's narration is too strange, since he says that Mary did not recognize Jesus(one of the two) while talking to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name.

39. How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified ? Isn't it that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of resurrecting him too?

40. The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God, they are supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote them. If the source were the same, why shouldn't they correspond with each other in reporting such an important event?

41. How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus coming out of the tomb?

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

And taking us back 1,400+ years is the answer, looooool diaper heads and no logic. Because the diaper has the same thing in it as when a child wears it.

SWORD of GOD;39404 wrote:

"Say: O People of the Scripture (Jews & Christians)! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him)." (Qur'an)

[SIZE="2"]To Every Christian, Please Ask Yourself...[/SIZE]

[SIZE="2"]MISSION OF JESUS:[/SIZE]

Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?

34. Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.

2 Replies

@mlurp,

"Say: O People of the Scripture (Jews & Christians)! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him)." (Qur'an)

[SIZE="3"]To Every Christian, Please Ask Yourself...[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]BIBLE:[/SIZE]

If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)?

42. Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God's word, especially when it
addresses an important feature like the Ascension?

43. Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why?

44. Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other.

45. How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?

46. Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn't that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God's Word" when the revisers of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKNOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

Do you believe this book which teaches you:

Deuteronomy 25: 11-12

[25:11]
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts,

[25:12]
then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall have no pity.

[SIZE="3"]Do you believe this was from GOD!!? [/SIZE]

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

Quote:

Try not to destroy all the dictionary meaning of words as you reply. It is very confusing.

I am very sorry, it is not on purpose. Feel free to correct any errors you may see.

0 Replies

@mlurp,

mlurp;40294 wrote:

And taking us back 1,400+ years is the answer, looooool diaper heads and no logic. Because the diaper has the same thing in it as when a child wears it.

LOVE IT MLURP!!!!!!!

3 Replies

@tvsej,

JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, VIII:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.- then answered the Jews - "

(which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Jews.)

0 Replies

@tvsej,

tvsej;40529 wrote:

LOVE IT MLURP!!!!!!!

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

[SIZE="3"]If Jesus was God ...[/SIZE]

If Jesus was God then who raised him up from the dead as you claimed and according to your fabricated bible !!!?

You better open your mind and read carefully:

[King James Version ]- [ Cor1:15:15 ] -[ Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.]

[King James Version ]- [ Gal:1:1 ] -[ Paul, an apostle,(not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead]

[ King James Version ]- [ Rom:10:9 ] -[ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.]

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

Re: If Jesus was God ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Jesus was God ...

If Jesus was God then who raised him up from the dead as you claimed and according to your fabricated bible !!!?

You better open your mind and read carefully:

[King James Version ]- [ Cor1:15:15 ] -[ Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.]

[King James Version ]- [ Gal:1:1 ] -[ Paul, an apostle,(not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead]

[ King James Version ]- [ Rom:10:9 ] -[ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.]

Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God... We believed in one God only... Jesus said in John 17.3 'AND THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE, THAT THEY KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD...' In 1 Corinthian 8.5-6 says 'FOR ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE SO CALLED GODS IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH-AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY GODS AND MANY LORDS YET FOR US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND FOR WHOM WE EXIST...'

The Bible is not fabricated. Fabricate according to Webster is 'to invent' , 'make up'. We do believe that the Bible translated today is not in their original text. Some were changed, some were added and maybe some were deleted. But even thou there were changes, God gave us the Spirit of discernment to detect the true translation from the changes and additions.....

0 Replies

@SWORD of GOD,

Hello, because your question/statement is similar to a post on another forum that I am on I have copied and past my answer from that post to this one...so read on.

The Bible says that the Word became Jesus, the man. The Greek word for word is Logos. Which means utterance and includes the thought as well. The same way you are able to think and utter, God also thinks and utters.

What God simply did was put flesh on His utterance; God's utterance is God the same way your utterance is you. Your utterance is distinct from the one uttering, but it is also identifies who the utterer is because what one utters or speak come from within the one speaking. This is how we get other people to know who we are.

Now the Holy Spirit is simply God in action; just as we are able to act, so it is with God. This is how the Trinity comes about. It is not two or three Gods anymore than you or me having three of ourselves because we expressed ourselves in those three ways.

1 Reply

@Brian764,

Brian@764;40833 wrote:

Hello, because your question/statement is similar to a post on another forum that I am on I have copied and past my answer from that post to this one...so read on.

The Bible says that the Word became Jesus, the man. The Greek word for word is Logos. Which means utterance and includes the thought as well. The same way you are able to think and utter, God also thinks and utters.

What God simply did was put flesh on His utterance; God's utterance is God the same way your utterance is you. Your utterance is distinct from the one uttering, but it is also identifies who the utterer is because what one utters or speak come from within the one speaking. This is how we get other people to know who we are.

Now the Holy Spirit is simply God in action; just as we are able to act, so it is with God. This is how the Trinity comes about. It is not two or three Gods anymore than you or me having three of ourselves because we expressed ourselves in those three ways.

If you are trying desperately to explain the Trinity paganism faith as I guess you are then I suggest you use the following video to help you in your mission:

[SIZE="3"]The Trinity: Explained[/SIZE]

Watch and hear: YouTube - The Trinity: Explained

Jesus is God and God is Jesus, whom are both separately and jointly the Holy Ghost, therefore:

1. God is greater than Jesus.

2. Jesus is greater than God.

3. Jesus is greater than himself.

4. God is greater than himself.

5. The Holy Ghost is greater than Jesus.

6. Jesus is greater than the Holy Ghost.

7. The Holy Ghost is greater than God.

8. God is greater than the Holy Ghost.

9. The Holy Ghost is greater than himself.

If you don't believe it, read the Bible and see for yourself.

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;40837 wrote:

If you are trying desperately to explain the Trinity paganism faith as I guess you are then I suggest you use the following video to help you in your mission:

[SIZE="3"]The Trinity: Explained[/SIZE]

Watch and hear: YouTube - The Trinity: Explained

Jesus is God and God is Jesus, whom are both separately and jointly the Holy Ghost, therefore:

1. God is greater than Jesus.

2. Jesus is greater than God.

3. Jesus is greater than himself.

4. God is greater than himself.

5. The Holy Ghost is greater than Jesus.

6. Jesus is greater than the Holy Ghost.

7. The Holy Ghost is greater than God.

8. God is greater than the Holy Ghost.

9. The Holy Ghost is greater than himself.

If you don't believe it, read the Bible and see for yourself.

Believe me I am fully aware of the scriptures; I read or listen to it almost everyday. Finding fault with God's word will only help to keep one in the dark, until God cause a change of heart towards His word. Humility is always a better way to go and understanding that if I don't understand something in the Bible, it's my lack of understanding of what's being said is the problem.

So you don't believe I can live with that; ones lack of faith does not affect my salvation. Besides it's God who is responsible for the opening of the mind, my job is just to help spread the gospel.

1 Reply

@Brian764,

Brian@764;40838 wrote:

Believe me I am fully aware of the scriptures; I read or listen to it almost everyday. Finding fault with God's word will only help to keep one in the dark, until God cause a change of heart towards His word. Humility is always a better way to go and understanding that if I don't understand something in the Bible, it's my lack of understanding of what's being said is the problem.

So you don't believe I can live with that; ones lack of faith does not affect my salvation. Besides it's God who is responsible for the opening of the mind, my job is just to help spread the gospel.

Even those who worship COWS or idols use the same reasoning you use here. You better use your mind because God has given us minds to think, investigate, and seek the TRUTH through evidences and solid proofs not by blind faith as you practice. Please, try to examine what you believe in. Jesus (PBUH) never told you that he was God or God the Son, and he never told you to worship him. In all the passages said by Jesus (PBUH) he confirmed that he was just a human messenger from the true God (The Creator). This what I am trying here to point out to and to make you think about with logical reasoning.

1 Reply

@SWORD of GOD,

SWORD of GOD;40840 wrote:

Even those who worship COWS or idols use the same reasoning you use here.

Yes I'm sure they would but that still does not mean I'm in error though. There is only one truth and only those who have it knows it.

SWORD of GOD;40840 wrote:

You better use your mind because God has given us minds to think, investigate, and seek the TRUTH through evidences and solid proofs not by blind faith as you practice. Please, try to examine what you believe in. Jesus (PBUH) never told you that he was God or God the Son, and he never told you to worship him..

The day will come when you will know without a shdow of of dought who was right.

SWORD of GOD;40840 wrote:

In all the passages said by Jesus (PBUH) he confirmed that he was just a human messenger from the true God (The Creator). This what I am trying here to point out to and to make you think about with logical reasoning.

I could give you scriptures proving you wrong but I don't believe it would convinced you.....you have already made up your mind about what you believe. One day the entire world will given such overwhelming evidence that it cannot deny. Until then believe as you wish.

1 Reply

If Jesus was God ...

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know