If Jesus was God ...

Heres a good site to start on for evidence that the word hell is not in the bible.

Devoted to Truth - Answers To Questions about the Word Of God

I have lots of info I can give you on this , but read this one first and then provide some rational discussion on the site and I'll be happy to talk further and give you more.

I studied with the JW's for over two years because I came to believe much as they do from my own studies. I will not criticize then or any other denomination , but lets just say they left me in certain arears of their beliefs.

But they are on target as far as who God is and many other things.

wvpeach;36808 wrote:

greatest

But you are missing the point. God has given man the power to screw up creation.

So that all creation will learn that without God we cannot find perfection, or even a decent world.

Then when this is done God will step back in and make perfection again. The bible promises this.

the whole point is without God we are lost, and we had to have the chance to screw it up to know this.[/QUOTE

Well said.....[/QUOTE]

The thing about Perfection is that it cannot be destroyed by us or anyone else. Perfection is exactly that Perfection. There is no way to take it to imperfection unless God's works are flimsy. If they are then this would show a weak God.
Either He is powerful or He is not. If your belief makes Him weak then you should question your belief. Back sliding is not allowed in God's universe and this is what you have Him doing. It just does not fit.
Look again for the first time.
Do not give man more power than God.

It would be a strange concept for God to give man a Perfect environment and have it fall to pieces the first time man tries to use it. Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL

mlurp;37419 wrote:

The thing about Perfection is that it cannot be destroyed by us or anyone else. Perfection is exactly that Perfection. There is no way to take it to imperfection unless God's works are flimsy. If they are then this would show a weak God.
Either He is powerful or He is not. If your belief makes Him weak then you should question your belief. Back sliding is not allowed in God's universe and this is what you have Him doing. It just does not fit.
Look again for the first time.
Do not give man more power than God.

It would be a strange concept for God to give man a Perfect environment and have it fall to pieces the first time man tries to use it. Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL

The problem with this, is it's all based on your mental fantasies. It's all about your concepts, and these concepts are based on nothing but your feelings. I would hate to fly a plane based on how you think it should fly. I'm not buying into your fantasy. You make many statements here, and almost all of them are based on nothing.

Greatest I am;37442 wrote:

The problem with this, is it's all based on your mental fantasies. It's all about your concepts, and these concepts are based on nothing but your feelings. I would hate to fly a plane based on how you think it should fly. I'm not buying into your fantasy. You make many statements here, and almost all of them are based on nothing.

Strange then that no one can refute the logic of my position. They just keep taking their illogical arguments and run away.

What part of the Bible is not mental fantasy, the talking snake?

Regards
DL

Thanks for the link wvpeach

In 1973 I was a much younger man, and I had an encounter back then with two demons called Abjar and Altra. For 6 months I was pretty much tomented by them. Then one day I came across some Christian believers who understood the situation I was in. In that same year I met with them in a house in Crete Il. in the early morning. These Christians commanded these two demons to leave me. They commanded them to return to Hell. The demons did not want to go, and they were terrorized at very mention of that place. One spoke out and said he would rather be destroyed than to burn in Hell. I then began to here him begging for mercy, the woman across from me had a visual of him being burned up. I never forgot that time. What happened that day only confirmed in my mind that the Bible speaks the truth. The concept of Hell is well established in the Scriptures, and trying to dismiss it to just a mistranslation would be a big mistake. I have had encounters with demons, and I can tell you, they believe in Hell.

mlurp;37419 wrote:

The thing about Perfection is that it cannot be destroyed by us or anyone else. Perfection is exactly that Perfection. There is no way to take it to imperfection unless God's works are flimsy. If they are then this would show a weak God.
Either He is powerful or He is not. If your belief makes Him weak then you should question your belief. Back sliding is not allowed in God's universe and this is what you have Him doing. It just does not fit.
Look again for the first time.
Do not give man more power than God.

It would be a strange concept for God to give man a Perfect environment and have it fall to pieces the first time man tries to use it. Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL

Greatest

Are starving kids in africa perfect?

Is a river so polluted it catches on fire perfect?

Is aids or cancer perfect?

Now either you mean something else and are very poor at getting your piont across or you are not realistic at all.

this world we live in is far from perfect. Yet you keep insisting it is.

tell that to a four year old I know who is dying of cancer.






If God was in front of you and you asked Him if these are Perfect, do you think He would admit to a mistake or do you think He would tell you that it is your perception that is flawed?

Answer truthfully and you have your answer.
Remember that evil has been with us forever.

What would be God's answer?

Regards
DL

Campbell34;37448 wrote:

Strange then that no one can refute the logic of my position. They just keep taking their illogical arguments and run away.

What part of the Bible is not mental fantasy, the talking snake?

Regards
DL

How about the 300 fulfilled Old Testament prophecies by Jesus Christ, or how about all the fulfilled end time prophecies. The return of the Jews to Israel, the recapture of Jerusalem, the sealed East Gate in Jerusalem, ect.

Greatest I am;37473 wrote:

How about the 300 fulfilled Old Testament prophecies by Jesus Christ, or how about all the fulfilled end time prophecies. The return of the Jews to Israel, the recapture of Jerusalem, the sealed East Gate in Jerusalem, ect.

And what does that have to do with refuting my position.
Finish this track before trying to deflect into another.

If all these were true then what happens to free will. We loose it. Right?

Regards
DL

What is Hell campbell?

The problem is that what you believe hell is ( the word) is not what the bible says . In fact the word hell was only added recently .

Campbell34;37510 wrote:

And what does that have to do with refuting my position.
Finish this track before trying to deflect into another.

If all these were true then what happens to free will. We loose it. Right?

Regards
DL

Your logic is your logic. It cannot be proven just considered. And I believe the Bible has evidence that can be considered. And my conclusion is the Bibles evidence is true. Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. The End Time prophecies are already coming to pass. We can see the Jews returning to Israel, I saw them retake Jerusalem, Jerusalems East Gate still remains sealed as the Bible said it would. There are other Bible prophecies that are being fulfilled as well. This is proof that the Bible is speaking the truth. You can use your own logic, but there is nothing you have shown me to prove that your logic is correct or true. Only the Bible has done this for me.

Greatest I am;37512 wrote:

Your logic is your logic. It cannot be proven just considered. And I believe the Bible has evidence that can be considered. And my conclusion is the Bibles evidence is true. Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. The End Time prophecies are already coming to pass. We can see the Jews returning to Israel, I saw them retake Jerusalem, Jerusalems East Gate still remains sealed as the Bible said it would. There are other Bible prophecies that are being fulfilled as well. This is proof that the Bible is speaking the truth. You can use your own logic, but there is nothing you have shown me to prove that your logic is correct or true. Only the Bible has done this for me.

A-Men............ Either wake up and think salvation or remain in the grave you build about yourself.
Great post as some others on this topic. But if one doesn't want to believe what is before their eyes then maybe the end time is even closer than what some of us believe. God, did say he will shut the eyes of the non believers, didn't He?

Greatest I am;37512 wrote:

Your logic is your logic. It cannot be proven just considered. And I believe the Bible has evidence that can be considered. And my conclusion is the Bibles evidence is true. Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. The End Time prophecies are already coming to pass. We can see the Jews returning to Israel, I saw them retake Jerusalem, Jerusalems East Gate still remains sealed as the Bible said it would. There are other Bible prophecies that are being fulfilled as well. This is proof that the Bible is speaking the truth. You can use your own logic, but there is nothing you have shown me to prove that your logic is correct or true. Only the Bible has done this for me.

The Jews did not retake anything. It was handed to them by the UN.
They did not earn it themselves.

If prophesy is real then what happens to free will?
Both cannot live side by side.

Regards
DL

Campbell34;37527 wrote:

A-Men............ Either wake up and think salvation or remain in the grave you build about yourself.
Great post as some others on this topic. But if one doesn't want to believe what is before their eyes then maybe the end time is even closer than what some of us believe. God, did say he will shut the eyes of the non believers, didn't He?

Now why would God condemn someone to Hell like that.
Strange for a God who is supposed to be stocking Heaven, not Hell.
Then again after using genocide on us, a few extra souls in Hell won't make God loose any sleep will it. He, after all has already shown you His incompetence in creating Perfect souls.

Regards
DL

Campbell34;37527 wrote:

The Jews did not retake anything. It was handed to them by the UN.
They did not earn it themselves.

If prophesy is real then what happens to free will?
Both cannot live side by side.

Regards
DL

Yes they did. The very next day the muslims attacked the new Nation everyone thinks is the start of something. It was the start of the Jewish Homeland and battle against the crazies that didn't think they had a right to breath. Which is enough proof that there is a God. And the UN wasn't in the fight, nor offer any help. This is a family fued. Stay out of it.

Look in 1967 the Jewish Army took the Holy City. Count your Bibical 40 years from there.
Free will of choice, will already decide your fate before He, returns. Do you know what is coming? How it arrives and the lies it will spew out.
And when Jesus, does come back you people will still be posting this or that. He, is at the door when are you just going to allow Him to enter?
LoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

wvpeach;37480 wrote:

Greatest

Are starving kids in africa perfect?

Is a river so polluted it catches on fire perfect?

Is aids or cancer perfect?

Now either you mean something else and are very poor at getting your piont across or you are not realistic at all.

this world we live in is far from perfect. Yet you keep insisting it is.

tell that to a four year old I know who is dying of cancer.






If God was in front of you and you asked Him if these are Perfect, do you think He would admit to a mistake or do you think He would tell you that it is your perception that is flawed?

Answer truthfully and you have your answer.
Remember that evil has been with us forever.

What would be God's answer?

Regards
DL

greatest

I do not think God makes any mistakes. let me repeat this so maybe you will get it as I have said it again and again.

[SIZE="3"] God does not make mistakes ...... No way greatest[/SIZE]


God designed this world as imperfect as it is to be just what it is.

To make it really clear. God made evil and good, God made perfect and imperfect in this world. We are not told we will have perfection in this world and time.

We are told that one day ( soon I think) the world as we know it and all its systems will end then God will give us a new earth and it will be perfect.:headbang::headbang:

But here and now we are living in a far from perfect world and God made it this way , he knows what he is doing , God has a plan all the imperfection is for a purpose.






Listen to your words.
Would you look God in the face and tell Him He creates incompetence. Are you that blind to His Perfection.
He purposely creates imperfections. What hog wash.

He just wants to be the hero and come and save us. from His own incompetence. We should really love and honor Him for screwing up so that he could fix it later.

If your earthly father screws up your life and returns later to fix things; would you love and respect Him.

Get serious here please.

Regards
DL