If Jesus was God ...

God is a decisive fellow.
Unless He wants to admit to screwing up on soul creation then we can be sure that all our destinies are in Heaven.
God does not need a book of name or any theatrics.
We die, we go to Heaven.
God initially was the master of all. At the end the same condition remains.
To say that He looses us to anything else would make Him a back slider. This cannot be.
It is impossible to be separated from God. Can you leave this universe. No.

Regards
DL

I left yesterday so this might not even be allowed. But God didn't screw up anything. We humans have freedom of choice. Therefore we screwed it all up.
God can't do wrong or have anything unholy round about Him. Another question I have for Him, when and if I get there. In Job, Satan is in the thrown room of God. yea the Bible is even messed up by the human hand, I agree to that. But also will accept it word for word as truth. I guess it's really about getting there. And if the strange person or any other isn't offered a warm heart by anyone then I would worry. Thats why after second guessing this weird guy getting in my face I still tried to reason with him. Yet I got a warning. And this one person described his sex life and bashed several people and played with me. So I never got to the post where I offered my hand and end this foolishness. Which I am sure he didn't accept.
That was to much. others spoke of honor to me. Well I had HONOR before I came to this board and I still have it as I leave this board.
So if your sure your going to heaven I would worry. Cause Jesus, says in the last book of the Bible, "So then, because thou art lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth". So I take it Once saved alway saved isn't the truth. besides my way keeps me on the path towards the WAY and keeps me focused on Jesus.
I will say good by to each of you and wish each a blessed time here on the 3rd rock from the sun. I would leave my e-mail but then I might get this guy spamming me. So I can't do that either.
Good By, Michael aka mlurp........................end transmission

If you want to give man the power to screw up God's Perfect universe this is your prerogative but it is not a power I give man. Last time I looked man was weaker than God.
Only God could screw up His Perfection. And He would not.

See ya.

Regards
DL

First of all Greatest let me say I am not a Jehovah's Witness . I have studied for over 2 years with them and have many friends due to that study time I count among their numbers. I have studied with many denominations and faiths during my life time . I am a student of religion so to speak. Seeking all my life to know God's truth I have investigated every religious persuasion man has come up with almost. Almost I say because some smack of Satan right off the bat, no need to look into those.

My belief about the 144,000 is they were made by God to serve as kings and priests under Christ. These 144,000 are to help keep us all on the right path when this system of the world is finished. And for most of us we will be living on a new earth created by God, building our own homes and tending our own vineyards.

The bible tells us that Satan and fallen angels will be chained in a abyss, being a big hole, I believe may be right here on earth. I do not believe God would torment any being, even Satan for eternity, but I have not been made privy as to what will be the final fate of Satan or the fallen angels.

As I said I am not a Jehovahs witness . I believe through the Holy Spirit God teaches his own . This teaching can be audible, or in our minds through prayer, or in the written word. I do believe the bible Greatest, but believe we need the Holy Spirit to guide us as to what is God's Word in it and as to what has been corrupted by man. There are many other sacred texts other than the bible the Holy Spirit has led me to to learn the truth about God.

Greatest what writings do you use to learn of God?

As for talking snakes and talking animals for that matter. I believe God is the great I am, the one true God ; all powerful and able to do or create anything he wants. If God wants a animal of any kind to be able to speak it will. Or for that matter a tree, a flower, a cloud, a mountain. God is just that powerful.

Good discussion with you Greatest.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, AND SHALL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.
The Bible clearly tells us of the fate of Satan and his followers.

and what does fire do campbell ? It consumes it does not allow anything to survive.

This is just another bad translation error in the KJV of the bible and most English translations.

You really need to do further study and stop spouting the teachings of men who changed the word of God , so much so that its meaning has been distorted

greatest

But you are missing the point. God has given man the power to screw up creation.

So that all creation will learn that without God we cannot find perfection, or even a decent world.

Then when this is done God will step back in and make perfection again. The bible promises this.

the whole point is without God we are lost, and we had to have the chance to screw it up to know this.

Well now you see I did my homework and this is what I found out about the New World Translation.

Dr. Bruce M. Metzger Professor of NT Princeton University states that the New World Translation is a frightful mistranslation "erroneous" and "pernicious" "reprehensible"

Dr. William Barclay leading Greek scholar said the sect that can translate the New Testemant like this is intellectually dishonest.

Dr. Julius Mantey Author of a manual grammar of the Greek NT said the New World Translation is a shocking mistranslation.

This list could go on and on, and this is just a fraction of leading Greek Scholars that have condemn this Translation. The fact is the JWs have removed entire verse from the Bible because the verses donot agree with their doctrine. That's why the founder of the JWs told everyone that the only one's who will ever be able to understand the Bible are those who read his books. And after all these years he still has people believeing his lies. It is the Watch Tower Society that is spouting the teachings of men from their false translation. Charles Taze Russel was the founder of the JWs and according to him, he was the only one that knew the truth. GIVE ME A BREAK.

I left yesterday so this might not even be allowed. But God didn't screw up anything. We humans have freedom of choice. Therefore we screwed it all up.
God can't do wrong or have anything unholy round about Him. Another question I have for Him, when and if I get there. In Job, Satan is in the thrown room of God. yea the Bible is even messed up by the human hand, I agree to that. But also will accept it word for word as truth. I guess it's really about getting there. And if the strange person or any other isn't offered a warm heart by anyone then I would worry. Thats why after second guessing this weird guy getting in my face I still tried to reason with him. Yet I got a warning. And this one person described his sex life and bashed several people and played with me. So I never got to the post where I offered my hand and end this foolishness. Which I am sure he didn't accept.
That was to much. others spoke of honor to me. Well I had HONOR before I came to this board and I still have it as I leave this board.
So if your sure your going to heaven I would worry. Cause Jesus, says in the last book of the Bible, "So then, because thou art lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth". So I take it Once saved alway saved isn't the truth. besides my way keeps me on the path towards the WAY and keeps me focused on Jesus.
I will say good by to each of you and wish each a blessed time here on the 3rd rock from the sun. I would leave my e-mail but then I might get this guy spamming me. So I can't do that either.
Good By, Michael aka mlurp........................end transmission

You take away God's Perfection. and buy into the idea that He cannot create a Perfect Heaven free of rebellious angels. He cannot create a Perfect earth free of rebellious humans. In fact He cannot get anything right. Are you starting to see a pattern to your looser of a God.

If He was a representative of a race then we would see His race giving Him a failing grade in doing anything.

Does this not seem strange to you. Do you not have faith in a powerful God?
How can you believe in a God who makes only mistakes?

Regards
DL

Greatest
I know God can and will have a perfect creation.

I also believe you read my post about why God created evil so that we would know and appreciate good when we are living in a perfect creation.

But lets face it that perfect creation is not here and now. God will make perfection one day. But now we are in school learning to appreciate perfection I believe when we are finally given it.

I like your attitude that all will be made perfect and salvaged. But that is not exactly what I believe.

I believe most will be perfected and salvaged from sin.

But I also believe that God knows some will never repent and don't want to be perfect. I believe he will destroy those souls. I do not believe he will torment them for eternity.

Greatest , keep on with what you believe it is close and I cannot say perfectly correct , maybe you are right. All I can say is where I am at the teachings of the holy spirit right now. And as I told you there are demons loose in this world, maybe God will redeem them one day too who knows.

Much is left a mystery and the bible tells us God did that intentionally, but all will be revealed in the end. By the way, I can imagine how frustrating bible study must be for you, as it seems you believe very little of it. But that is okay , I assume you pray, and ask God to teach you what he wants and that is enough.

God warned of back sliding and yet you seem to believe that His initial Perfection back slid to an imperfect state.
God is not a winner one day and a looser the next.
Inconsistency is not one of Gods characteristics.

If He was in a Perfect universe at the beginning then He would maintain this state and can return at any time to this perfect state that He left. He can do this at all times.
If not, please explain why He would back slide?

Regards
DL

greatest I must be missing something you ar saying.

It seems to me you keep argueing that God created it perfect and its still perfect.

One has only to look around to see that is not the case. With babies starving all over the world and wars. I could name a thousand imperfect things about this world we live in and people are being hurt by that imperfection.

The bible tells me that it will be perfect again, but now it is not near perfect.

So what are you argueing here?

and what does fire do campbell ? It consumes it does not allow anything to survive.

This is just another bad translation error in the KJV of the bible and most English translations.

You really need to do further study and stop spouting the teachings of men who changed the word of God , so much so that its meaning has been distorted

Campbell

You seem hung up on the JW's for some reason? I do not know what this has to do with the JW's?

Hang on to your idea if you want campbell that God will burn people for eternity. That is okay, because I am sure when you find out that is not true one day, you'll be glad to know our mercy filled God is not a sadist . At least I hope you'll be glad , I am assuming you are not the kind that would have wanted to see people suffer.

Got news for you most greek scholars condemn all English translations.

If you are interested I have a book shelf full of works that make commentary on the translations . Since I know very little Greek and Hebrew myself all I can do is read a dozen or more who have commented on translations and make my mind up based on who I believe and what the Holy Spirit has guided me to.

I can assure you that Hell came from the goddess of helena. No such idea existed until the 1400's and what really convinced me is hundreds of different church leaders down through the centuries who are fluent in greek and hebrew have committed to writing the fact that the concept of eternal torture by God for sin was never in the bible till man added it. And these church leaders came from all denominations and religious leanings.

I am sure I have some good links to academic sites talking about the mistranslation of the word hell in all bibles . I'd be glad to give you a couple at a time and in a academic mind set discuss them after you read them.

I will not waste my time , till I can see you've read them. But as I said it makes no difference believe what you believe. I happen to believe during the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth all such matters will be set straight and people will learn that God does not torture even the wicked.


God will destroy the wicked, but he will not torture them.

Next I suppose you will tell me you do not believe in the 1000 year reign of the Lord on earth?

I am asking why you are waiting for an all powerful God to fix things.
If He is God in the first place He must be able to create a system that does not need fixing.
If it needs fixing then it was not created by God.
God cannot make mistakes.

Are you saying that you wait for God to return to fix His mistake?
What kind of God makes mistakes?

It is a simple concept. Either God is God or God is a looser who cannot get things right. Which do you believe?

Regards
DL

Well I don't feel I'm hung up on the JW's, but I do know that your belief system so far agrees with them 100% Now maybe these Greek scholars donot embrace the English Translations, yet they consider the New World Translation a perversion, rather than a translation. And these same modern day Greek scholars imbrace the reality of a Biblical Hell, which you don't. So, which scholars agree with a non existant Hell. I can tell you. NONE OF THEM!

greatest

But you are missing the point. God has given man the power to screw up creation.

So that all creation will learn that without God we cannot find perfection, or even a decent world.

Then when this is done God will step back in and make perfection again. The bible promises this.

the whole point is without God we are lost, and we had to have the chance to screw it up to know this.[/QUOTE

Well said.....

Heres a good site to start on for evidence that the word hell is not in the bible.

Devoted to Truth - Answers To Questions about the Word Of God

I have lots of info I can give you on this , but read this one first and then provide some rational discussion on the site and I'll be happy to talk further and give you more.

I studied with the JW's for over two years because I came to believe much as they do from my own studies. I will not criticize then or any other denomination , but lets just say they left me in certain arears of their beliefs.

But they are on target as far as who God is and many other things.