Michael Moore to release two new "Documentaries"

Were there ever terrorist attacks on U.S. soil before 9/11?

Yes, starting with the Boston Tea Party, on through the Oklahoma City
bombing and the previous World Trade Center attempt.

Why? Because terrorism is a part of life in this world, and though we are
by far the most immune and removed country on the face of the earth from
it, it still inevitably touches us.

Why does terrorism happen? Because some people find violence the perfect
way to express their feelings on any number of subjects: from the intrusion
of secularism on their fundamentalist viewpoints, to the existance of abortion
clinics, to certain forces keeping unjust regimes in power, to feeling that the
government is infringing upon their rights, to plain old insanety...

Iraq played no part in 9/11. Saudi Arabia is more closely connected.

In a way, Michael Moore performs a public service by making all Liberals look like idiots and by further alienating them from the mainsteam of American society.

See, there is a silver lining in every cloud.

[/I][/B]

We really do not know. do we? I think it is important to watch your enemy closer, by any means necessary..I do see the ME as a enemy turf whatsoever..USA need to do whatever to protect and keep its citizens safe and sound...Even this means beat the sh....t out of anyone, and so be it!

Like you said some people prefer violence to peaceful talks..What choice do we really have? We already have a major problem with many radicalist nesting everywhere in the world..How Moore can deny it?

Finally i just would like that people leave USA alone! To those who prefer violence i would say to concentrate solving their own problems in their own country..If you know what do I mean! Perhaps Moore should focus on that... Right there, outside american territory there is plenty to talk about!! :lightbulb:

His point, that 9/11 was used to launch a plan to invade Iraq that had long
been on the drawing baord of the PNAC, is still true. The only question lies
in whether the administration was dishonest on purpose or due to it's own
self-deception and misreading of information to hear what it wanted. Iraq
had NO connection to 9/11. None. Zilch. Nada. Zero.

Your comment about people leaving the US alone is kind of funny... and
telling. We have our hands in everything everywhere... we'd have to become
an isolationist country in order for that to happen, and that would include not
buying oil and aiding in propping up unjust regimes in the process.

The U.S. must reorganize, redirect and rejuvenate our military strength regain
our soveignty, and put real pressure on the governments of the world - from
Iran to China to Mexico to Thailand - to make real change, bringing oppurtunity
and democracy to their people.

That is the only hope for justice, and justice is the only hope for peace.

I don't think of Moore as anti-american. *** Chavez... he's a grandstanding
dick. He doesn't want a better relationship with the U.S., just global attention. Socialists are always self-important showboats.

I hope other countries possessing the status and power of the U.S. will act
in a way that benefits the bigger picture, and that we will also. The common
complaint I hear about other first world countries is that "they turn a blind
eye to what's going on in the world, and then we learn they were making
money off of the way things were..." We're in the same boat. There's as
much U.S. hardware and war machinery with Saddam's initials on it as
French and Soviet.

We are the dominant country in the world, at the moment. With that comes
great responsibility, and when we don't live up to that we're perceived as
guilty by someone who's oppressed somewhere... with help from paid
government clerics in the case of Saudi Arabia.

If America is the "leader" of the world, let it be a great and just leader.
Otherwise, how long will it stay on top, and by what means?

I don't think of Moore as anti-american.

*** Chavez... he's a grandstanding
dick. He doesn't want a better relationship with the U.S., just global attention. Socialists are always self-important showboats.

I hope other countries possessing the status and power of the U.S. will act
in a way that benefits the bigger picture, and that we will also.

I hear about other first world countries is that "they turn a blind
eye to what's going on in the world, and then we learn they were making
money off of the way things were.

We're in the same boat. There's as
much U.S. hardware and war machinery with Saddam's initials on it as
French and Soviet.

We are the dominant country in the world, at the moment.

With that comes
great responsibility, and when we don't live up to that we're perceived as
guilty by someone who's oppressed somewhere... with help from paid
government clerics in the case of Saudi Arabia.

If America is the "leader" of the world, let it be a great and just leader.
Otherwise, how long will it stay on top, and by what means?

So what do you call it?

You seem to follow that doctrine as well, IMO.

But it sounds we must conform to your social standards of fair play? Any body out there now is playing second fidel to us. Try as you might you will never measure up to our standards as low as you may think they are, you will never attain them.

Make up your mind, do you want us involved or do you want us to stay out?

So which are you, soviet or french?

We will be dominant till the end or our time.

And that make's you feel bad?

Who care's, we aren't asking. We are the leader because we got the badest military on the planet. It didn't happen as a fluke. And we use it beryu effectively, whether you approve of or not.

To be an American who criticizes your leaders is to be an American.

Self-important? probably. Socialist? Maybe a Socialist-Democrat, like
MLK, Ed Asner and Jesus Christ.

Second Fidel... Castro?

America has its own standards of fair play. We're just messing with them, now.

Involved, definitely... just not involved with military as the primary initial
tactic. See Francis Fukuyama's writings on "Constructive Capitalism."
Oh yeah, he's a conservative, and a former neo-con (Charter PNAC
member), but he made some sense even back then and he really has
learned from the failures of the past 5 years.

French ancestors about 200+ years ago. Lame comeback, by the way.

Did you mean that to be funny?

It makes it easy for our enemies to recruit suicide bombers, and terrorist
hijackers, and get fodder for their Jihad. The finger is pointed to U.S. as
the reason that somehow oil wealth doesn't trickle down to them (but is siphoned off by the ruling families) and why they have no practical
education or opportunities. State employees in the mosqes do the recruiting.
Who cares, right? We get relatively cheap oil out of the deal... What's a
9/11 every once in a while?

Who cares, right? We get relatively cheap oil out of the deal... What's a
9/11 every once in a while?

We are the leader because we are a shining beacon of liberty, freedom,
opportunity, liberal democracy, justice and free capitalism.

Your description sounds like the biggest bully on the playground. The one
the other kids eventually gang up on and give an ass kicking.

David and Golaith ring a bell?

Criticizing is one thing, hate is another.

I note how you say "socialist" and not social- democrat. Yet i know not of JC's political affiliation?

No, fiddle. And yes we do have our own standards, and the majority decides them.

That's what i read too, but some thing tells me the story will change real soon?

You gave me the "in." Don't get mad when i use it. I'm about 350+ of Spanish ancestry.

No.

The enemy is going to recruit whether it is easy or not. As we will do the same. Fodder is all they present as there need be no truth to what they say, hate is the only requirement they need. I do not feel sorry for them if there mind is so easely subdude. You can blame the rest of the world for your failure to standup, but it is your fault none the less.

How much extra do you give the gas station so we don't have to depend on foriegn oil. I take it you do drive a car don't you? How many of those gas burners reside at you home? Got kids, they drive? If you walk every where or ride a bike, then you are not apart of the problem. Are you part of the problem? Will you put up with another 9-11 so you can pay under three bucks a gallon? How much will you pay to deter such and event, nothing?

Where are we the leader in liberal democracy? Didn't you hear Kerry lost. I guess you just had the through that one in there huh? Your a little more addept at baiting then you would have most believe?

We as a nation have been handed that since you libs had your way
with vietnam. Military success, political defeat. But i'm sure you share no
responcibility for that right, Those wern't libs that did that huh? It wasn't
your fault millions of south vietnamese died after you cut funding, that
allowed socialists to overrun there country?

Sure does, we are David. Islomofacists are Goliath. And we will beat them even though you are in our way.

Look, the liberal agenda of today WILL eventually triumph, as the liberal agendas of the past eventually did. That's called progress, and all you are is someone fighting progress... just like those in the past who resisted abolition, woman's suffrage, the civil rights movement, etc.

Stem cell research, full rights regardless of sexual orientation, torture... history will put you on the wrong side of the argument. There's nothing you can do about that, it's progress... in this, the most progressive of all nations on earth!

Michael Moore is a thorn in Republicans side the same way Ann Coulter is to the Democrats.

I see it as checks and balances. Republicans don't like anyone exposing their mistakes.

Does that apply to the wingnuts who despised Clinton?

Conservatives
created the market for outright political hatred... don't complain about it
coming back on you.

...and I don't think Moore "hates" anyone, just what
they're doing to his country. He's standing up, that long-running American
tradition.

sorry, I meant democratic socialists. Democratic Socialists of America
I agree with some of their agenda.

JC would've probably been apolitical, more about results. He was anti-
capitalist (I'm not), pro-charity and social programs.

I'm actually a former Catholic/present Atheist for Jesus. The guy rules.

I think it's safe to say he wouldn't be into state-backed torture.

No, the constitution decides them. If the majority decided lynching
Greenlanders was acceptable tomorrow it wouldn't fly.

Perhaps it will, if there's a good reason, and that's the mark of intelligence
(one not in evidence in this administration, unless changing excuses counts).

If you read Fukuyama you know that he (very correctly) notes that democracy
is a by-product of liberty and opportunity, not the cause of it.
People only take action when it will benefit them, they only participate in
the political process when they have something at stake. If they have
nothing to protect or advance (or in the case of most Americans, just don't
feel it will effect them one way or another) they could care less. When
the people on the streets of the Middle-East are educated, have prospects
for bettering their lives and creating something more for their children then
they'll protect that and fight for it, electorially or otherwise. Until then
it's just a matter of who will oppress them. The U.S. does have the power
in the world to use economical measures to force the governments in
that region, as well as anywhere else, to improve the lives of their people
and not just be parasites on the resources. He proposes this as the new
conservative foreign affairs agenda, and it's a great one.

Not mad, but that's a Hannity comeback from 4 years ago... old.

If you're Spanish, then theres a chance you have some Moor or Arabic
ancestry (my french ancestors do). Hell, we all come from the same
spot in Northern Africa, anyway, which is why this all seems insane when
you think about it. Then again, the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland
blow each other to bits. Human nature is what it is...

It's funny. "we will dominate until the end of our time!" which says, in
effect "we will dominate until we don't anynore and someone else does."

Back to the Fukuyama thing... if young males in the middle-east had
hopes, dreams, girlfriends and the freedom to do and be whatever they
wanted how many do you think would opt to be a bomb delivery vehicle
in exchange for 80 virgins in an after-life no one can confirm exists?

The neo-con maxim - "Freedom for others means safety for us." True.

I was employing sarcasm. I own 2 cars... one economical, one not (which
doesn't get driven unless I need to haul something). I do ride a bike as
much as possible, and do a lot for a group here lobbying for mass transit
and alternative transportation improvements in my city.

I am one of those people... maybe it's because I always wanted to be a
writer and did research... but my mind does wander down the path of
everything I come into contact with. Clothes from the Gap... unfortunately
stitched together by a 12 year old under the "management" of someone
weilding a machete in burma.

Our form of government is called a "representational liberal democracy,"
sorry to break it to you...

Who fully commited the U.S. in Vietnam? Kennedy and Johnson.
Who pulled out of Vietnam? Nixon. Unless you want to make a point that
he was a puppet of the democrats?

I suggest you watch "The Fog Of War," an incredible "conversational
documentary" on the subject. Robert McNamara sums up our problem in
Vietnam perfectly: "We thought it was about fighting communism. We were
wrong, it was a civil war. You can't win when you don't understand what
you're fighting."

Your analogy is backwards, but I guess you're sticking to simple "black and
white/we're good therefore we're David" thinking. Wrong analogy.

We are the giant, fighting what amounts to a street gang. Using the U.S.
military to fight Al Qaeda is the equivalent of fighting mosquitos with an
automatic rifle... more collateral damage than success. Even should you
get lucky more mosquitos will be born unless you abate the circumstances
allowing them to reproduce (stagnant water, a fitting metaphor). Until the
lives of Middle-easterners have some worth in this life, not the next, they
will be able to be used for violence against us and others.

Anyway, it strikes me I come here for intelligent, informed discourse and
others might come here to chest thump.

And what about democrats?

Stating we are a "Liberal Democracy" does not make it so. con you provide a little more proof? Like some thing in the founding fathers words or in the Constitution?