Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 12:58 pm
I'm not sure I should be asking this question as I think I have an answer.

Is God a murderer?

Even if your idea is that God does not exist,
from what you know of the ideas and sightings of God, is God a murderer?
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:02 pm
If god existed and if he were human, I think there would definitely be some discussion of sociopathic tendencies
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:05 pm
@sometime sun,
I would have to say no, because inherent in almost all people's views who believe in god believe in his goodness. When innocent folk are smitten, it is possible they're ending up somewhere far more enjoyable than our planet earth and world and time. But it does seem very unfair too, when a murderer lives but the child he killed obviously wasn't given that right.

I suppose it's that question which often makes people question a god.

I think maybe this question is akin to asking:
Why do people die here if god is so good?

Also, for this discussion, I propose we might all acknowledge that we know nothing of the afterlife.

GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:14 pm
@sometime sun,
I suppose it depends on which God.
The Judeo-Christian Commandment is Thou Shalt not Kill. as well as Thou shalt this thou shalt not that. The commandment was directed at humanity not himself. So it pronominally stands to reason that he is not necessarily under the same restrictions as we are.

In some other mythologies the Gods are prone to murder, plotting murder etc...
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:15 pm
@MontereyJack,
Lets for this discussion then make God mortal,
which means subject to mortal law.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:17 pm
@sometime sun,
THOU wilst doeth of that which I command thee, not of which I doeth. GET IT?
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:17 pm
@CarbonSystem,
Yes as the after life is also not subject to just mortal law, I agree, no after life, until we may find we cannot do with out it that is.
0 Replies
 
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:20 pm
@CarbonSystem,
God is not a murderer.
Why would he kill? How would he kill?

If God created humans, then humans are God's invention. God would be some psycho to destroy his own creations.

CarbonSystem wrote:

I think maybe this question is akin to asking:
Why do people die here if god is so good?


Why would people want to not die? Nature keeps us in check.

Your question does not make any sense to me, could you please explain?
Does God's "goodness", or lack of, give people longer lives?

CarbonSystem wrote:

I would have to say no, because inherent in almost all people's views who believe in god believe in his goodness. When innocent folk are smitten, it is possible they're ending up somewhere far more enjoyable than our planet earth and world and time. But it does seem very unfair too, when a murderer lives but the child he killed obviously wasn't given that right.

I am having a hard time understanding you, man. Why would you propose the bold faced sentence in the above quote, then say the quote below?
CarbonSystem wrote:

Also, for this discussion, I propose we might all acknowledge that we know nothing of the afterlife.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:22 pm
@GoshisDead,
I suppose we should confine it to that which does not admit murder. So the Judeo-Christian will do just fine.
Are you saying that God has a law or commandment for us but does not think it good or bad enough for Him to follow?

Is not the lesson of Christ that is now under or over the same restrictions as we?
Would it not seem a little hypocritical of Jesus Christ because He has died now does not any longer see Himself as human or the Son?

(Great to see you)
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:24 pm
@farmerman,
Do as I say, not as I do.
Got it.
But does God admit to murder?
Francis
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:29 pm
Mister kitten wrote:
Why would he kill? How would he kill?

He kills, according to the bible, out of anger and jealousy.

He kills for revenge, he kills those who don't worship him.

He kills by arming the hand of the legions who worship him..

and wrote:
If God created humans, then humans are God's invention. God would be some psycho to destroy his own creations.

God is a psychotic creation of humans..
Classic Red
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:33 pm
@sometime sun,
I'd have to say god is a murderer. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest this. Now assuming that your talking about the god from the bible.

A couple examples are:

1. Noah's Arc
2. When God commanded Joshua and his people to kill everyone in Canaan.


Here's a video that some of you may find interesting about the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqfGu6vTxFY
CarbonSystem
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:33 pm
@Francis,
Quote:
God is a psychotic creation of humans..


And/or an excellent excuse for the scum of the earth to perform evil acts.
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:35 pm
@sometime sun,
1) Murder is a legal term which is relative to the legal system. I'm fairly certain god's aren't subject to human legals systems.
2) If we are talking killing in general as judeo-christian commandment and God makes the commandments for us, God decides what is killing/murder. Him not being necessarily subject to those commandments would mean that if he took a life, it would not necessarily even be killing, it would be something else entirely.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:43 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten wrote:

God is not a murderer.
Why would he kill? How would he kill?

If God created humans, then humans are God's invention. God would be some psycho to destroy his own creations.


Agreed, can we blame the God for the human?

But is this like blaming the sword and not the bearer?

(great to see you)
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:49 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

1) Murder is a legal term which is relative to the legal system. I'm fairly certain god's aren't subject to human legals systems.

But was not Jesus Christ subject to a system?
Is He still?
Or does his death mean he is now no longer subject to our and his laws?
(If not what does this do for the concept of hell?, damn I knew it wouldn't take me long, you don't have to go near this one just yet)
GoshisDead wrote:

2) If we are talking killing in general as judeo-christian commandment and God makes the commandments for us, God decides what is killing/murder. Him not being necessarily subject to those commandments would mean that if he took a life, it would not necessarily even be killing, it would be something else entirely.

No not killing yet if we can help it, just murder. I suppose we ought first concrete what 'murder' is and is not. It is killing but killing is not just murder.

This is utterly fascinating, what do you think this something else would be?
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:50 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:

I suppose we should confine it to that which does not admit murder. So the Judeo-Christian will do just fine.
Are you saying that God has a law or commandment for us but does not think it good or bad enough for Him to follow?

Is not the lesson of Christ that is now under or over the same restrictions as we?
Would it not seem a little hypocritical of Jesus Christ because He has died now does not any longer see Himself as human or the Son?

(Great to see you)




Maybe we can look at the function and power of the entity commiting the act. Not being omnipotent or omniscient severly restricts my ability to see the big picture so to speak. So i have no idea what the potential and place of the person I may kill. Also my motives are in question, because all of the exceptions for killing another human are also granted by various judeo-christian and laws and other moral codes. I.e. self defense etc... So what function do I serve by killing?

God on the other hand is purported to see the big picture and know the potential and place of his creations. For him to take a life would presumably function as positive in the grand scheme. So maybe he would call it a transition or transposition instead of killing.

Its all speculation here. lol
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:54 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:

But was not Jesus Christ subject to a system?
Is He still?
Or does his death mean he is now no longer subject to our and his laws?
(If not what does this do for the concept of hell?, damn I knew it wouldn't take me long, you don't have to go near this one just yet)


According to the New Testement, Christ was never subject to human law, except that which he subjected himself. Christ's temptation by Satan, throw yourself off of this temple and legions of angels will save you if you will it. Just that temptation shows that Christ wasn't necessarily even involuntarily subject to the laws of physics let alone Herod or Pilot.
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:57 pm
@Classic Red,
1. Noah's arc natural disaster?
2. Okay so someone tells you to murder someone, you do, did they do the murder or did you?

Can God ever be accountable for the actions of man.

I am not sure if you deny God's existence? because you still seem to be blaming Him for the deeds and wrongs of nature and man?

Sorry if I am being confused. It happens easily.
Pemerson
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 02:22 pm
I don't think the god of the Bible is the same as the loving Father that Jesus described and, who, he says is within us all. The Old Testament god is our tester, tormentor, and tempter. Jesus resisted those temptations, so can we by seeking the one within.

 

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