Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:14 pm
@neologist,
But we have murderous tendencies too. Isn't that amplified in Him as well? Also, I have heard of a Bible story where God sent the Archangel Michael to wipe out a whole town of non-believers. And Lucifer was the only one who questioned Him, so he was thrown down from Heaven.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:24 pm
@Logicus,
Logicus wrote:
But we have murderous tendencies too. Isn't that amplified in Him as well? Also, I have heard of a Bible story where God sent the Archangel Michael to wipe out a whole town of non-believers. And Lucifer was the only one who questioned Him, so he was thrown down from Heaven.
You'll have to provide a reference to that.

If God created us with the qualities of love and justice then the existence of war and crime and sickness and death must have some logical explanation.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:25 pm
@Logicus,
Might be wise to read the bible Log, and the lost gospels, history of the jews, romans, assyrians. Then use a concordance to validate each, study the assemly of the bible, its architects and their mindsets, and sociological and topographical research of the ancient world.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:32 pm
@mark noble,
Maybe I should.Perhaps I'm confusing stories from other things. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
Logicus
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:34 pm
@neologist,
What logic is there for war and pain, except for His own pleasure? If God is an enhanced form of us, then He would enjoy watching people suffer because he can. It's Human nature to exert your power over others, and you're saying God is an advanced Human.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:39 pm
@Logicus,
Love and justice are incompatible with murder,
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:42 pm
@neologist,
False. Love and justice are the causes of murder.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:45 pm
@Logicus,
Murderers are the cause of murder.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:47 pm
@mark noble,
No. Why do nations go to war? They want land for their country (love). They were mistreated by another nation (justice). Nazi Germany went to war because they thought they were the master race, and others had no right to live.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:49 pm
@Logicus,
No, Nazis went to war because the elite deemed it apt.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 09:58 pm
@mark noble,
Yes. A twisted sense of justice. A belief that they were the best and had the right to kill everyone else. Hitler inspired this in them and also seemed to believe it too.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:02 pm
@Logicus,
Logicus wrote:
False. Love and justice are the causes of murder.
Possibly a cause for killing, There would be a difference, albeit in an imperfect world.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:13 pm
@neologist,
True. But I might be proposing that God might be worse than a murderer. maybe He is a sadistic psychopathic entity that enjoys creating beings and watching them kill each other in droves.
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:36 pm
@Logicus,
hmm well I believe you are trying to put all the books that compile the bible into one to try to understand God. You must remember the bible was composite of many books Smile It has instructions to it . It says to test prophets and spirits. How you do this? Well you cant test by what John said because you wouldn't be able to test before Jesus. So test it By saying "Does its writting come back to God?" Well lets test some as an example the book Revelation hmm that's a book written by another guy named John about a dream he had. Hmmm well guess you can make your own conclusion on that one Knowing that the word evil dint exist in Aramaic in Jesus time. Does claiming to kill another creation of God in the name of God comes back to God? These are all questions the Bible instructs you ask. Also try to translate Things like what Jesus spoke your self so you don't get someone else's point of view on the translations. You will find words that explains a lot of questions Smile But remember this was a book compiled by someone making decisions on what to keep or what to take out and how to translate it. Now about the question is God a murderer? Hmm the bible says "This body is a seed for your next body". Well everyone has different paths they take to reach the next body. As far as emotions such as suffering well its there to guide you. You don't like to see people suffer. Hints you, try to change that action. It hurts to put your hand over a flame, It hints you not to put your hand over a flame. Smile Also very important any bible from any religion you read it tells you that we are the care takers of all other life. So do try to take care of the one thing all life have in common, the valuable DNA. Do try to make sure that it will keep on surviving. Smile
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:40 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
So basically, God does not even let you die. He lets you keeping existing in other bodies so you can keep suffering for him. That might be worse. Again, I am not opposing the ideals of religion, just trying to use some logic for the argument.
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:47 pm
@Logicus,
Ehh suffering. I suppose if that is the only emotion you seek you will be able to find based on your definition. Tell me what other emotions can find if you search for it?
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Jul, 2013 10:57 pm
@Logicus,
If you want to understand "redemption" in a logical way don't think of "sin" but think of enlightenment n lack of it...if it was the case one would reincarnate one would do so on the basis of learning and not because one would be paying for our sins...suffering is just lack of clarity, lack of enlightenment...miss perceiving the underlying order on why the world is as it is...our incompleteness as isolated limited beings is our "suffering"...even the greatest barbarities must be reconciliated with the order of the world...one of the best possible explanations for "evil" I have for myself is that suffering is needed as the counter opposite for happiness so that value can exist or be build...no frailty in life, no death, no disease, no risk, no suffering...then no value, no pleasure, no gain...life is a ride n requires dichotomy !
Logicus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2013 01:43 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I think of sin in a different way, and not religiously. I think of it as a opposition to the security of society. Although God may have created us, He has no right to plague us with countless sufferings. The Holocaust comes to mind. If God truly loved all, despite race, creed, color, or gender, why did He allow countless innocent Jewish people die? Was it because they did not believe in the Christian God and Jesus? Also, the story of Moses comes to mind, when Moses climbed the mountain to retrieve the Ten Commandments, and his followers decided to worship a golden idol. He killed many of them, because He was a, "jealous" God.
Logicus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2013 01:44 pm
The message above also is a reply to Peter.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2013 02:21 pm
@Logicus,
Logicus wrote:
. . . Although God may have created us, He has no right to plague us with countless sufferings. The Holocaust comes to mind. If God truly loved all, despite race, creed, color, or gender, why did He allow countless innocent Jewish people die? . . .
The answer comes from a source you may not accept. I can't tell. But here goes:
The Bible clearly indicates that Satan is in charge of world affairs.
References on request.
 

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