Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 02:35 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:
Even if your idea is that God does not exist,
from what you know of the ideas and sightings of God, is God a murderer?

I don't believe any gods exist. That said, the fictional "god" character of the Judeo-Christian Bible is indeed a murderer, a torturer, even an accessory to genocide. The Old Testament leaves no doubt about this.
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 02:37 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

sometime sun wrote:
Even if your idea is that God does not exist,
from what you know of the ideas and sightings of God, is God a murderer?

I don't believe any gods exist. That said, the fictional "god" character of the Judeo-Christian Bible is indeed a murderer, a torturer, even an accessory to genocide. The Old Testament leaves no doubt about this.


True, although I would assert that the bible as is made available to us today has been chewed up and spit out by those who had control of it. So it's tough once we start using the bible as evidence.

But I agree, there are many parts which can lend creedence to an argument.

That being said, I believe in god already, but it's not the judeo-christian god who I relate to.

0 Replies
 
Classic Red
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 03:52 pm
@sometime sun,
Well when someone tells someone to kill someone else that person is accountable along with the person who commits the murder. I think thats just common sence there.

Noah's arc - Assuming that were talking about what has been interpreted from the bible it explains it in a way that it was obviously planned by god. Also we don't have any proof.

God can definitely be accountable for his actions.
0 Replies
 
Dosed
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:10 pm
Look at all the people God killed in the old testament.

He justified the flood with the fact that humanity was evil. But what about in Exodus when he killed innocent children???
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:29 pm
I realize this was a "God Sucks" bait and switch thread, but I posted anyway. i was hoping to turn it into a real discussion. Reality 19865214 / Romantic Idealism 0
Arjuna
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:38 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:

Lets for this discussion then make God mortal,
which means subject to mortal law.

Then an example of that is Shakespeare. Did he murder Hamlet? Did Dickens murder poor Mr. Headstone?

"I appeal to the court to realize that from the point of view of the defendant, the victim was fictional. Any distress caused by the untimely... (out of timely) death of the victim was intended for entertainment, the raising of funds, and because that's just what he, a creator, tends to do."
-- God's lawyer.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:42 pm
@GoshisDead,
I am SO sorry you may think this of me GoshisDead.
For the record then, I am currently trying (not hard enough) to be a Christian.
I think God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all we need.
I am a Christ Child in the making.
I Love Jesus Christ.
But I find I must still question Him.
And also for the record I do NOT believe God is a murderer,
I am just unsure as to how I have come to this conclusion and how I can prove it.

You have been the biggest inspiration to this thread for me so far.
Please don't think to badly of someone who simply does not know how, why, when or what to trust
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:45 pm
@sometime sun,
Huh? If God doesn't exist, how can a non-existent entity be or do anything, much less be a murderer? A bit of an illogical non-sequitur.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:46 pm
@Arjuna,
Yes this also may go some way to saying that Zarathustra murdered God and did not merely break the news.
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:51 pm
@Ragman,
What are you talking about?
I say clearly that I think God exists because I am asking the question.
I was merely attempting to open the discussion in a way that would not preclude an atheistic view of things.
Hard to do, no?
GoshisDead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:53 pm
@sometime sun,
Lol sorry sun: I was just being dramatic.
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:05 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:

What are you talking about?
I say clearly that I think God exists because I am asking the question.
I was merely attempting to open the discussion in a way that would not preclude an atheistic view of things.
Hard to do, no?




There really is not other way for an athiest to think aside from what ragman pointed out unless that person really isn't an atheist.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:29 pm
Even if we don't exactly look at the murder aspect, we can say god lacks empathy for human suffering.

What is the difference between a person standing on a beach watching someone drown or a god having knowledge and the ability to rescue the drowning person? You could argue that if god were to get involved it would destroy free will, however that same argument would have to stand if the person standing on the beach were to act as well. So is a person who rescues a drowning victim destroying their free will? No.

So in conclusion a god who has knowledge and ability to prevent human suffering, allows it. Not only that but if god is the creator of all things, then that god designed the system to be one of suffering. Surely an all powerful god could have easily designed a system without suffering, right?

Even though i would still say that if god exists it would be the definition of a murderer, but it is far more than that. To create a system of such unnecessary suffering is just brutally cruel.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:30 pm
@GoshisDead,
Do you think atheism and theism will ever join?
Do you think it is two opposing channels and hard-wiring that both cant help but view the other as illogical.
I wonder if there are breeds of logic?
And not some where a possible transmitor that will reach both stations?
mister kitten
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:38 pm
If we're going to go by the bible, then God also tortures people. Just look at what he did to Job
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:52 pm
@Krumple,
Who is to say that suffering is unessecary?
GoshisDead
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:56 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun wrote:

Do you think atheism and theism will ever join?
Do you think it is two opposing channels and hard-wiring that both cant help but view the other as illogical.
I wonder if there are breeds of logic?
And not some where a possible transmitor that will reach both stations?


Atheism as practiced is just a different religion. It preaches, proseletyzes, makes determinations on the supernatural and afterlife, influences and dictates law, action, behavior, education, and personal agency. It has a dogmatic doctrine that bucks contradiction. They are the same thing with different doctrines like Jainism compared to Sunnism.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 06:14 pm
@GoshisDead,
Oh yes I completely agree.
Richard Dawkins makes me laugh with his emotional displays of devoutness.
I have only witness his fervour in Evangelists,
He really does make me smile.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 06:52 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

Who is to say that suffering is unessecary?


oh i guess a child starving to death is necessary?
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 06:57 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:
Atheism as practiced is just a different religion. It preaches, proseletyzes, makes determinations on the supernatural and afterlife, influences and dictates law, action, behavior, education, and personal agency. It has a dogmatic doctrine that bucks contradiction. They are the same thing with different doctrines like Jainism compared to Sunnism.


Just keep displaying your ignorance here. Atheism does not say anything about your ethics or morality. This is just something that theists like to invent to make them selves feel better. If they can wedge dogma into atheism then it doesn't make them feel so awkward that they accept a premise without any basis. However; you should be reminded that atheism contains no dogma. That is like saying to a person who doesn't believe in gremlins that they have some dogma about the existence of gremlins and since they don't believe that gremlins are the cause behind the random break down of machinery that thinking there must be another explanation is dogmatic is just plain stupidity.
 

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