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Poll: Can Gays & Lesbians alter their sexual orientation?

 
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:18 pm
Is semen available in health food stores?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:34 pm
Do health food stores carry designer shampoos? Wink
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coffee sloth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:40 pm
Diane wrote:
Is semen available in health food stores?


Sometimes. It depends on whether a who is working, and how safe you feel in asking them if they'd be willing to give or sell you some. It might be easier to convince some employees to offer semen up than others.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:41 pm
Often they are more likely to do so off duty! Very Happy
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coffee sloth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:41 pm
Regarding the whole "Can homosexuals be changed into Heterosexuals" issue....I'd like to know if anyone has taken a heterosexual and turned them into a homosexual using reversed applications of "homo-to-hetero" methods. The "ex-gay" people, like Exodus International, claim they have methods that turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. I do not know what they do to their "patients" but I'd like to know if reversing the program could turn a troubled hetero into a happy, normal homosexual. I'd be a lot more inclined to believe they could do what they say if they were able to do that.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 10:47 pm
truth
Good question, C_S.
I love rhetorical questions; they're the easiest to answer.
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coffee sloth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 11:10 pm
The way I am thinking, the proponents of the "ex-gay" programs make it sound like taking a space heater (gay) and turning it into an air conditioner (straight). If that's the case, they should be able to take an AC unit and make it into a heater. They might argue that it would be opposed to the whole concept, but if they're so sure it works, why couldn't they change the AC unit into a space heater and back into an Air Conditioner again?
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RicardoTizon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2003 11:10 pm
Let us replace the old English word "Sodomy" with the new English word popularized by Eddie Murphy "Boogie in the Butt"
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2003 12:09 am
truth
Ricardo, please, let's forgo the technical jargon.
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seaglass
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2003 10:37 pm
my most favorite graffitti appeared on the wall of a bar in the West Village of NYC called "Jack Barrys'".

It said:

My mother made me a homosexuaol.

underneath someone added:

If I get her the material, will she make me one.

sg
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 01:19 am
Quote:
joefromchicago wrote:
I'm sure that gays and lesbians can alter their sexual orientations.[/QUOTE

I knew at the age of five who and what I really was. For 44 years, I lived an unbearable lie, trying to be something I wasn't...a heterosexual male. Two failed marriages, three children and seven grandchildren couldn't convince me to live that lie that society imposes. Several times I considered suicide, because I knew who I really was and was unable to conform.

Did I have a choice in gender orientation? Well, you could say that. I could have chosen to remain miserable or possibly commit suicide. However, I chose to remain among the living, accept who I really am and live life without the frustration, anger at allowing myself to be put into an illfitting mold and truly enjoy life. So, by doing that I did have a choice and am glad that I made the choice I have. My life is richer, fuller and more enjoyable than I ever dreamt possible.

Perhaps you should know that suicide is the number one killer in the GLBT community. Why? Simply because of friends and family that these poor souls have lost when they came out OR because they were so depressed in living in the closet. With more understanding and acceptance, this rate would drop below homicide, overdose to drugs and alcohol and, of course, HIV/AIDS. Once society stops trying to "cure" the GLBT community and accepts us as just people, it will end a lot of pain.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 09:53 am
Wiyaka - I'm sure you realize, given the rest of JoeFromChicago's post, that he was not talking about the type of sexual orientation in the sense you are.

he was referring, errrr, more to positioning :wink:
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 11:19 am
ehBeth wrote:
Wiyaka - I'm sure you realize, given the rest of JoeFromChicago's post, that he was not talking about the type of sexual orientation in the sense you are.

he was referring, errrr, more to positioning :wink:


Could you clarify your meaning of "positioning"? That word, like many, has several definitions.
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 09:01 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Wiyaka - I'm sure you realize, given the rest of JoeFromChicago's post, that he was not talking about the type of sexual orientation in the sense you are.

he was referring, errrr, more to positioning :wink:


Since I made a public error, I will apologize publicly for my ignorance. I mean that as a lack of understanding or lack of knowledge.

Regarding positioning, I think the Kama Sutra was written by a person with one heck of a wild imagination. You'd need to be contortionist to accomplish some of those positions. Imagine trying some of those positions! Shocked I firmly believe that one might need a compass and topographical map to get to the point.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 07:08 am
:wink:
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 10:43 am
Wiyaka: It is rare indeed that someone responds to one of my posts almost six months after I submit it, and it is only by chance that I stopped in to look at the Spirituality and Religion Forum today. So you can imagine my surprise when I saw your post criticizing me for taking a position that I would never have espoused.

ehBeth is right: it was a joke, based upon the dual-meaning of "orientation." In all seriousness, however, I firmly believe that sexual orientation (preference) is, by and large, unchangeable (sexual positioning, on the other hand, is a different story altogether).

I hope that you have reached a place in your life, Wiyaka, where you are free to abandon the socially imposed pretenses and be happy with who you truly are.
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 02:02 pm
Quote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Wiyaka: It is rare indeed that someone responds to one of my posts almost six months after I submit it, and it is only by chance that I stopped in to look at the Spirituality and Religion Forum today. So you can imagine my surprise when I saw your post criticizing me for taking a position that I would never have espoused.


Joe,
Again I'll publicly apologize for my misunderstanding of you meaning of the word "positioning. Please check my latest posting in that thread.


Quote:
I hope that you have reached a place in your life, Wiyaka, where you are free to abandon the socially imposed pretenses and be happy with who you truly are.


Oh yes, I'm happier now than when I ever was as a man. It's even better than my first parachute jump. That was exhilarating, believe me. Now, I control my future, with Sam as my partner. This life is easier now than 'Nam was, contrary to what people may think.

When I came out, it was like exploding the house with only the closet doorframe and door left standing in the rubble. I literally opened it and gave it a heel kick and watched it collapse into the debris with a cloud of dust. Within a week, all of my family knew: Mom, my stepdad, my three brothers, my four sisters, their families and even aunts and uncles. I've always done things in an understated way, you understnd.

When I accepted fully, I could actually feel the weight of 44 years of denying to myself and others who I really am. No more lies! What freedom!!!!! I never was much of a liar anyway, always trying to remember who I told what was tiring and confusing. Unlike some trans women, I don't deny my past, since those things I experienced are what helped me become the person I am.

I love being asked if I'm a man or a woman. I always answer "Yes." and try to educate them a bit about people like myself. I also like wearing my army jungle fatigue jacket, with all of the "Christmas tree" type decorations on it and my long black velvet dress in pow wow grand entries. Vets that don't know me, ask when and where I was in Vietnam and the specific units. It makes them understand that we're everywhere, unfortunately most in scarey closets.

Do I worry about social constraints? Not for myself. Sam and I are often cautioned, "You be careful traveling. Remember Matthew Shepard." We travel to Wyoming often and other western states and have had no trouble. However, I don't care for the attitude found in northern Idaho. We treat people the way we'd like to be treated and it occassionaly surprises them in a good way. So there aren't problems.

Since we follow a traditional Lakota lifestyle, we don't have much time for pow wows, but we travel thousands of miles each year to Gatherings and Ceremonies. We tell people to meet and learn from their[QUOTE] own Elders, not us. This has allowed us to take part in and sometimes do Ceremony in other Native people's home territories, both here in the US and Canada.

When I came out in 1999, I had no idea how my life would change or the impact I'd have on others. We're constantly invited to other areas for Ceremonies or just to visit. Living our lives as we do, Sam and I are changing the world, one person or more at a time. We aren't unlocking doors, merely re-opening those that society has closed on people for years.

Am I afraid of the future? No, we're running to grab the possiblities! We're only concerned about the possible constitutional amendments, regarding same-sex marriages. But since we're moving to Pine Ridge rez soon, that's not going to be an issue. You see, Winkte (Literally translated to mean, "neither man nor woman")are considered male even if they have sexual reversal surgery (SRS) by the Lakota. So, we'll get married once we get settled out there. However, I feel sorry for others that have to deal with this.

I should tell you that many Lakota feel that there is a Winkte "curse", that a Winkte can put on them for disrespect. I don't believe in cursing people, but have given it long and hard thought. I finally came up with a "teaching curse", if you like. Understand that we believe that what we say or do, good or bad, comes back four or sevenfold like Karma. Four and seven are our sacred numbers. That's important to this. If anyone should try to be sooooo rude, I would wish them to live as a Winkte for 28 days (4x7 :wink: ), then return to their natural self. It would teach them a lesson about acceptance and tolerance. It wouldn't hurt me at all, already being Winkte. Laughing
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:05 pm
Congratulations, Wiyaka. Whenever this topic arises, someone asks "Can heterosexual men and women choose to change their sexual orientation?" This question may have already been asked in this thread.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:20 pm
Honestly, I believe it would be easier for heterosexuals to change their orientation that vise versa. That was my initial reaction, and after thinking it out I believe it is because very few heterosexuals would want to, so if one ever tried, it would be because they wanted to, and desire helps any endevour. There are plenty of homosexuals who try to change because they feel they HAVE to, and being forced to do something usually negetively affects the performance.
So my answer to the initial question is "yes," but I don't think it could possibly be easy, otherwise many would do so just as a matter of convenience, religion entirely aside.
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olobolo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2004 07:17 pm
I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone said this earlier, but a better question, I think, would be:

Is humans capable of changing their sexual orientation?

Personally I think it must be a clear yes, because I myself have had my sexual orientation changed from heterosexual to bisexual, but it happened not to my will, it just happened Wink. But you really can't put sexual orientation in boxes like "heterosexual" and "homosexual", I guess it's just easier that way.

WYAKA: In the past when you were still in denial of your homosexuality, did you get turned on by other men? And do you think it's possible to be gay if you are not turned on by other men? It's a strange question I know, but could it be possible to deny your (not you in particular but any human's) homosexuality so much that it prevented you from getting turned on by men?

By the way, people that think that love between people (gay love in particular) can be a sin against God only see it as a sin because something in themselves get disgusted by it when they see it and therefore they use religion as an excuse to root out what they see as the source to this disgust. Therefore the problem is within themselves and not a religious matter at all, but more of a personal psychological suffering.
What I mean is that they are against homosexuality because they get disgusted and then use religion to try to remove homosexuality so that they no longer feel that disgust.
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