Poll: Can Gays & Lesbians alter their sexual orientation?

Strict sexual "orientations" are a product of the 19th century, from my understanding of the subject.

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I'd have to agree with you, Frank. Same-sex sex doesn't appeal to me at all (note childish gesture signifying throw-up).

BUT experience tells me that so much of what seems "natural" to me is in fact ingrained culture. If it can happen with food likes and dislikes, with certain snobberies, etc., I just know it can happen with sexual choices.

Hell, I remember when I found out (at nine) what men could do to you, you know, put that thing... The idea seemed incredibly repellent and not something I'd even be caught doing.... Yeah, right!!

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truth
O.K., since we are all in a confessional mode, let me reveal that I am a total he-man. Laughing

Seriously, I do feel that there are (I forgot the operative scale) ones (total gays) and sixes (total heterosexuals), although in the latter case culture is SO important a factor that lots of fours and fives may be passing for sixes. And it is the ones that we are most interested in here. I know guys and gals who seem to me SO inherently gay that I FEEL sure that they are profoundly gay. In such cases I strong suspect a neurological hard-wiring that renders them pure and non-convertible. This applies, I suspect, to the pure sixes as well. Although I will admit that I was TOTALLY shocked upon hearing that the sexual (masculine) identity model of my youth, Randolf Scott, was the lover of Cary Grant. Rolling Eyes

Well, there's still Gonad the Barbarian!

The rest of us, however, are in-between, able to "cathect" to same sex individuals as well as all kinds of sex objects: trees (I know of a case), children (we all know of such cases), very elderly people (a bit more rare), domineering individuals (a down-right sub-culture) etc. etc. Most men and women are capable of enjoying same sex relations and yet not be, in my judgement, true gays (consider prison life). Most of them would prefer a happy heterosexual marriage. yada yada.

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I agree with all, there is a range, whether it is Kinsey's 1-6 or some bell curve, hmmm, perhaps an ess curve, or segmented curve, oh, never mind.

My fondest loving memories are for a fellow who came out a few years after we broke up (excruciating breakup for me as I was crazy about him) and has, now, a long time mate who - eek! - fits some of my description (loves landscape design, and so on).

I think there are mixes of things going on but that most of it is hardwiring, which is to say biochemical pathways and feedbacks. I think possibly some changes are for somewhat political reasons, as Sozobe was alluding to, women who are fed up with men who find not only solace but pleasure and excitement from women, and may change back later - but even then it is only partly political.

A woman at work, decades ago, who irritated the hell out of me for many reasons (oh, for example, she used to let the air out of people's tires when they parked in her spot) used to say "you can't tell gender in the dark". (huh?) This is patently not true, but in some sense, perhaps, it is.

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I think what bugs me the most is the notion that people have to be locked in to "who they are." I reserve the right to change at any moment, transform, recoup, discover, astound.

No. What bugs me the VERY most is people who tell you who you are.

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truth
Tartarin, that is exactly the point, as far as I'm concerned. We should be able to change if we wish, careers, painting styles, sex preference, etc. But when people do not want to change, they shouldn't have to--no matter what the incentive--I can imagine that many gays at sometime in their lives wished they were straight, ONLY for the political advantages. I know a Black man who admitted to such a wish, but he qualified it with "I prefer to be Black, but it's SO difficult in America." Politics and bigotry aside, hard-wiring should be the bottom line.

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My wires never firmed up, JL!

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Avoiding the obvious ribald joke using "hard" and "wires." Its up to you, Blatham!

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truth
Ah, Tartarin, flexibility. I'm afraid mine are rusted.

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Jeez, JL, it ain't easy keeping them from rusting!

Hobit -- It's the mountain air: your bod is up there but your mind is crawling downwards towards the Gulf (or the Gu'f, as we call it here...)

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Maybe it's the people I choose to be friendly with - or they chose me - or something in between ... but ... I am having difficulty thinking of any 0's or 6's in my circle. My experience is with a world of 2's and 3's and 4's.

I was going to posit it as a generational thing, but I'm rethinking that as I type.

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EhBeth -- My experience seems to have been the same, if I exclude all those who swear up and down they would NEVER..... usually men. And usually the kind of men I avoid -- because they will expect me to bolster their fantasies about themselves.

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Tartarin wrote:

EhBeth -- My experience seems to have been the same, if I exclude all those who swear up and down they would NEVER..... usually men. And usually the kind of men I avoid -- because they will expect me to bolster their fantasies about themselves.

Boy, you sure are being especially hard nosed here.

I simply do not find men sexually attractive. I think there are many men who feel that same way. For certain there are lots of guys who are 2's through 5's -- but you and EhBeth are really trying to make that seem almost pathalogical.

What everyone should do is to allow everyone else to have his/her own sexuality -- and allow that to be okay without all the judgements.

If a person says people of the OPPOSITE sex do not attract him/her -- leave it at that.

If a person says people of the SAME sex do not attract him/her -- leave it at that.

If a person says sometimes yes, sometimes no -- leave it at that.

Why judge?

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There does seem to be a genetic basis for homosexuality, but it plays a relativly minor role.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dh93ge.html

Quote:

Equally as controversial are discussions of genes for intelligence. The X chromosome has helped reveal genes linked to intellectual activity, sparked by the discovery of fragile-X syndrome, the most common form of mental retardation. After Down's syndrome it is the most frequently occurring inherited disease among Westerners. The gene sequence causing fragile-X has been identified, though not entirely understood. It is not an intelligence gene, but one that controls fetal development. Down's syndrome, too, is revealing of the role of genes in development of intellect: most Down's syndrome children are born with an extra copy of one chromosome. This difference amounts to less than 2 percent of the chromosome count, but causes gross impairment of intellect as well as physiological problems. About half of the 50-100 thousand genes individuals inherit from their parents are thought to be involved in brain development. But "nature" is only part of the picture, and its countless twists, turns, and variations make human development far from straightforward.

Frank, yes, unless we can accept every difference we have not achieved a true sense of diversity--we can't celebrate the joy of diversity. (Still, I agree with Tart about the macho, macho guys.) Twisted Evil

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There does seem to be a genetic basis for homosexuality, but it plays a relativly minor role.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dh93ge.html

Quote:

Equally as controversial are discussions of genes for intelligence. The X chromosome has helped reveal genes linked to intellectual activity, sparked by the discovery of fragile-X syndrome, the most common form of mental retardation. After Down's syndrome it is the most frequently occurring inherited disease among Westerners. The gene sequence causing fragile-X has been identified, though not entirely understood. It is not an intelligence gene, but one that controls fetal development. Down's syndrome, too, is revealing of the role of genes in development of intellect: most Down's syndrome children are born with an extra copy of one chromosome. This difference amounts to less than 2 percent of the chromosome count, but causes gross impairment of intellect as well as physiological problems. About half of the 50-100 thousand genes individuals inherit from their parents are thought to be involved in brain development. But "nature" is only part of the picture, and its countless twists, turns, and variations make human development far from straightforward.

Frank, yes, unless we can accept every difference we have not achieved a true sense of diversity--we can't celebrate the joy of diversity. (Still, I agree with Tart about the macho, macho guys.) Twisted Evil

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Frank -- My comment wasn't aimed at you, of course... Still, one has to be as careful about mislabeling oneself as one is about mislabeling others. I tend to agree with you about leave it alone, only I'd start earlier. I would hope the subject didn't even arise... The pathology occurs when the labels are taken too seriously.

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truth
I think there are machos and there are machos. The only kind I detest are those who, when complimented on their sweater when they are actually nude from the belt up, FEEL FLATTERED!

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JLN

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I have no idea where I fit in that scale, I've never thought about hooking up with people of the same sex in a positive way, but never been totally grossed out either. I tend to prefer people who are probably at least 5.5 or so though. Who knows.

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A sound response, I think.

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Poll: Can Gays & Lesbians alter their sexual orientation?

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