TheoryJester
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Aug, 2013 06:15 am
@mark noble,
First of all I am intrigued how this thread turned into talk of excrement! Most amusing anyway I would like your thoughts on life, the universe and everything.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Aug, 2013 05:51 pm
@TheoryJester,
Those are deep questions.
0 Replies
 
AtheisticMaterialist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 05:47 pm
@TheoryJester,
Quote:
I would like your thoughts on life, the universe and everything.
42
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2013 02:42 pm
@mark noble,
Code:omg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Nov, 2013 12:45 pm
A silly question that needs no response. Does a2k exist?
0 Replies
 
pgmfordownloads
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Nov, 2013 02:04 pm
@mark noble,
" illavembudae illa" (written in Kannada language by 12 th century mystic Allama Prabhu in India)..... it's exact translation is " No itself is Not there"
0 Replies
 
Deaths Bane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Dec, 2013 08:16 am
@mark noble,
The way the laws of science work make it seem like nothing exsists... like an algorithm on God's XBox. Maybe there's a million copies of this game, and we're just the extras, designed to please one true person. Maybe we will never really meet that person. Maybe many of us will meet him and never know it. The most important person in the universe, and we don't even know we shook his/her hand. Irony is cunning.
0 Replies
 
Deaths Bane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Dec, 2013 08:18 am
@mark noble,
There is such a thing as void though. In subspace, there is void.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:11 pm
Confusions like thinking nothingness exists are exactly the kind of confusions that lead people to think space expands into nothingness in inflation...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Dec, 2013 04:08 am
0 Replies
 
simon ruszczak
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 06:05 pm
@Logicus,
The opposite of matter is not anti-matter.
Matter plus anti-matter equals energy.
0 Replies
 
simon ruszczak
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Feb, 2014 06:10 pm
@Logicus,
Wrong , when matter and anti-matter combine they become energy.
0 Replies
 
AaronJW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2014 01:10 pm
@mark noble,
Existence goes beyond human perception. The best answer I can fathom is yes, absolutely. But there is a problem. If the theory that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred and transformed holds true, then there is no such thing as nothing, because energy has always existed. The concept of nothing in modern times is not possible, no matter whether humans can detect the presence of something or not.
0 Replies
 
IanRust
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Mar, 2014 09:59 pm
@mark noble,
Rationally nothing does not exist, and everything exists. I'd rather say nothing non-exists... life exists in passing defiance of nonexistence.
Transcendentally, nothing does exist. In the same way when you turn around a corner, what was previously nothing becomes apparent as something. When an astronomer peers with a new telescope into a more distant galaxy, he uncovers one more star cluster within a infinite sea of star clusters; where before he saw only nothing. It seems, in this universe, something emerges out of nothing. The reverse also happens... When you close your eyes, the room disappears. When you die you become nothing. You were born from nothing. So aren't you, existing as you are, nothing; from which you were born and return? Your existence is in part an illusion. Existentially you are nothing. From your living viewpoint you gaze into the abyss of nothingness; and transcendentally you sense that nothing exists.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2014 08:50 pm
@IanRust,
(edited for lining up a more tangible train of thought)


Don't you people ever get fed up on this sort of easy metaphors ? I mean don't you feel the boredom ??? gosh...

Nothing is just a temporary negation, it may be relative to unknown data, it may be about transformation n transition, it may n often is about properties that don't refer into a specific set and don't fit a function a relation...but other then that there is no nothing. Nothing it is not a thing. Absence itself is relative as from A to B or C or D, its about a transformation process, but never an absolute negation.

I can say there is nothing in the freezer but of course there is air...
I can reply I was thinking about nothing, but of course I was thinking nonetheless just not focused.
When I say I want nothing anything I just mean I have everything...

Obviously the reasoning that everything came from nothingness is deeply flawed because true nothingness is empty of time and space, therefore of past and future just as is of matter and energy...there won't ever be a time on which something comes to be up from nothing as that would require time passing and at least one dimension of space for the transition to happen...if there is none, there is no transition, no movement, no start of anything as all time is empty forever...forever itself, is never, is nothing, is not infinity...on this regard nothing itself the negation becomes irrelevant because there is nothing to negate...it eats itself up.

I don't care if scientists want call for a timer out of spacetime the sort of crap like requiring meta time or multiverse upper time to justify their ignorance and lack of conceptual control, but don't mix that with nothingness, its just a redundant conceptual deja vu...its just wrong period !
Get a better fairy tale and I might buy it, if the lore is interesting enough that is.
IanRust
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2014 02:10 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Everything gets old. Maybe you are growing tired of philosophy. Philosophy is essentially semantics and metaphors.

... y0ur first two paragraphs are harmonious with my position. And parts of your third paragraph. I'm not completely sure where you disagree with me, if you are confused about my position, or if you just felt like adding something.

In the third paragraph you say rationally that nothingness is empty of time and space, and is not infinite. Here you have defined attributes for nothing... makes it something. Rationally, nothing cannot be defined. Separation of space & time is also an illusion.
The first sentence of your 3rd paragraph is incompatible with your first two paragraphs. IF nothingness is a temporary negation of something, something arises from nothing. But then you say it is obvious something cannot arise from nothing. Your semantics are getting tangled up.

When you say nothingness is a temporary negation, this is speaking in a transcendental sense... don't you also recognize existence is temporary? We know existence behaves as if it is transcendental.

Nothing cannot be rationally defined. Neither can everything. Rationally we cannot answer the OPs question.

We can define nothing and everything transcendentally and answer the question by saying the universe is infinite; and that nothing and everything are entangled. This answer is mathematically and physically reasonable, you can see it in the natural world cycles of life and death. ALso... transcendental philosophy is a-priori superior to rational philosophy.

I don't really see a conflict between us besides minor points of semantics, and I'm not sure where you see one. It looks to me like you are talking past me.
IanRust
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2014 02:44 am
@IanRust,
I suppose the point of contention begins with you defining nothing rationally, as if pure nothing is a real concept. Nothing, in this literal sense, is a rational idealization; an illusion. There is no counterpart to it in reality. This is not just some unique trait of nothingness, either. Rationality is built with illusions. The same principles apply to everything. You cannot rationally define pure everything. Pure everything is not real. This is a rational illusion.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2014 12:23 pm
@IanRust,
There is a difference between what the idealization, the concept seems to require and where the concept really fits.
When I say that nothingness as a conceptual frame points to this or points to that I am referring to the conceptual requirements and not ascribing real properties to it. The contradiction you point at its only apparent.

Second I easily can agree Philosophy has a serious problem with semantics but it goes quite a stretch to think it is just semantics. For clarifying purposes lets just say that if I had to chose I rather go with blunt reason alone then I ever would with scientific narratives...scientific narratives to often lose track with strong conceptual rational frames. Observation without strong rational conceptual frames is absolutely null. Any proper scientist should require a philosophical education. Most nowadays get it informally and are naive enough to indulge in thinking they are bi passing it altogether.
Yes there are many ways of speaking on the same thing and infinitely many more of exposing it in the wrong way, none of it changes what is the case.

Anyhow and back to the point I was trying to make yesterday I have no doubts that anything can ever come out of what is an absolute negation of any property in reality when that negation is permanent by definition.

Speaking about the roots of language in anthropological social contexts the only nothingness is worth to refer to is the partial negation common sense normally makes use of like for instance saying "there is nothing in the freezer."
IanRust
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2014 08:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
On the whole I agree with you, I appreciate you adding your input to this discussion. I think we have finished this for now.
0 Replies
 
kiuku
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2014 05:35 pm
@mark noble,
no, I don't think so. No one has really reasoned it.

A Nothing exists...I don't know. No one has.
0 Replies
 
 

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