Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:29 pm
@north,
north wrote:

nothing is the complete and absolute opposite of something



Perhaps, but perhaps Heidegger would say something like: we project our own being into the void, and give it its thingness...
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:38 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

north wrote:

nothing is the complete and absolute opposite of something



Perhaps, but perhaps Heidegger would say something like: we project our own being into the void, and give it its thingness...


nothing is not possible because nothing cannot transform
0 Replies
 
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:47 pm
I know that nothing exists by the lapse of time between conscious spells. But I have never observed it directly.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:51 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

I know that nothing exists by the lapse of time between conscious spells. But I have never observed it directly.


so nothing is based on time is it ... ?
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:53 pm
@north,
Quote:
so nothing is based on time is it ... ?


No, just my knowledge that nothing exists.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 09:59 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

Quote:
so nothing is based on time is it ... ?


No, just my knowledge that nothing exists.


a contradiction

explain
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:11 pm
@north,
Quote:

a contradiction

explain


A contradiction is when you say something that conflicts with itself. When assertions that make up the meaning of a statement oppose each other.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:18 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

Quote:

a contradiction

explain


A contradiction is when you say something that conflicts with itself. When assertions that make up the meaning of a statement oppose each other.


then what is your knowledge based on that nothing exists ?
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:27 pm
@north,
Quote:
then what is your knowledge based on that nothing exists.


Knowledge is the combination of two or more sensory and/or emotional elements. By this I mean the image of a color with the image of a word say "green" for example. Another example would be the image of a car with sounds of squealing tires and the feeling of being scared.

So my knowledge that nothing exists is based on my most recent memory before becoming conscious again was an image of a clock that said 2:30 and the next experience I have is seeing the clock at 4:00.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:39 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

Quote:
then what is your knowledge based on that nothing exists.


Knowledge is the combination of two or more sensory and/or emotional elements. By this I mean the image of a color with the image of a word say "green" for example. Another example would be the image of a car with sounds of squealing tires and the feeling of being scared.

So my knowledge that nothing exists is based on my most recent memory before becoming conscious again was an image of a clock that said 2:30 and the next experience I have is seeing the clock at 4:00.


yet to the reality of the physical interaction(s) of things , you are irrelevent
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:45 pm
@north,
Quote:
yet to the reality of the physical interaction(s) of things , you are irrelevent


Maybe.. if you mean that stuff still happens while I'm out. Then you are right for all the conscious people.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2010 10:50 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

Quote:
yet to the reality of the physical interaction(s) of things , you are irrelevent


Maybe.. if you mean that stuff still happens while I'm out. Then you are right for all the conscious people.


exactly
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:58 am
@north,
Exactly.

Nothing does not exist because something does.

Nothing is the opposite of something - Does this mean that there is no opposite to something (new thread).

Thank you North!
Mark...
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 01:41 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Exactly.

Nothing does not exist because something does.

Nothing is the opposite of something - Does this mean that there is no opposite to something (new thread).

Thank you North!
Mark...


Nothing is not the opposite of something, nothing is the negation of something, and by their very nature they are not specific things they cannot have opposites. They are proforms, they stand in for things. The only thing that may be the opposite of and unspecified is a specified, yet being a proform they already stand for that which would otherwise be specified. You see the problem with trying to define a word that performs a grammatical function as a content bearing word? Something and nothing bear no content they are in essence place holders that express the grammatical ideas of unspecified thingess and and the the negation of unspecified thingness. This whole thread could have been avoided if people understood the difference.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 03:31 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Exactly.

Nothing does not exist because something does.

Nothing is the opposite of something - Does this mean that there is no opposite to something (new thread).

Thank you North!
Mark...


Nothing is not the opposite of something, nothing is the negation of something, and by their very nature they are not specific things they cannot have opposites. They are proforms, they stand in for things. The only thing that may be the opposite of and unspecified is a specified, yet being a proform they already stand for that which would otherwise be specified. You see the problem with trying to define a word that performs a grammatical function as a content bearing word? Something and nothing bear no content they are in essence place holders that express the grammatical ideas of unspecified thingess and and the the negation of unspecified thingness. This whole thread could have been avoided if people understood the difference.


disagree

something is a physical thing , from the quantum to atoms , to asteriods , comets , moons , planets , suns and galaxies
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 07:00 pm
@north,
you disagreeing doesn't make it so. if something is something what is it? All the things you listed are things not somethings.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 08:27 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Exactly.

Nothing does not exist because something does.

Nothing is the opposite of something - Does this mean that there is no opposite to something (new thread).

Thank you North!
Mark...


Nothing is not the opposite of something, nothing is the negation of something, and by their very nature they are not specific things they cannot have opposites. They are proforms, they stand in for things. The only thing that may be the opposite of and unspecified is a specified, yet being a proform they already stand for that which would otherwise be specified. You see the problem with trying to define a word that performs a grammatical function as a content bearing word? Something and nothing bear no content they are in essence place holders that express the grammatical ideas of unspecified thingess and and the the negation of unspecified thingness. This whole thread could have been avoided if people understood the difference.


Everything, every object, abstract or concrete is a place older, such that what they hold is what they are, starting as concept, and although there are size differences between place holders thus creating degrees of order between them (bigger or smaller then) what we cannot do is to say that a place holder has no property´s...actually it is exactly the opposite, you only can hold what in fact belongs to your nature, such is the definition of sets...

Consequently:

Everything refers not only to something very real, but to all that is real and True !
As Nothing also refers to everything precisely by negating it...of course this does n´t mean that nothing exists. It only means that it refers to the opposite of what is, in turn, nothing !

Last but not least, and to further clarify:

To say that a set is a sum of its components is not to say that a set is just that, given as a Unity, it becomes something else...but necessarily a something else,without negating what constitutes it, if only to confirming it !
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:27 pm
@GoshisDead,
Something is that which has the property of being...anything is something.
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:41 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Everything, every object, abstract or concrete is a place older, such that what they hold is what they are, starting as concept, and although there are size differences between place holders thus creating degrees of order between them (bigger or smaller then) what we cannot do is to say that a place holder has no property´s...actually it is exactly the opposite, you only can hold what in fact belongs to your nature, such is the definition of sets...


Semiotically yes linguistically no. There are meaning bearing words and and non-meaning bearing words. the pro-form category is a grammatical placeholder. Such something and nothing which compound their grammatical functionality with being unspecific/indefinite. So not only do they only functional stand in for something, they functionally stand in for something that is indefinite and unidentifiable. We have a set of words twice removed from the meaning bearer words.
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Consequently:

Everything refers not only to something very real, but to all that is real and True !
As Nothing also refers to everything precisely by negating it...of course this does n´t mean that nothing exists. It only means that it refers to the opposite of what is, in turn, nothing !

The word something can refer to something real, although functionally the realness or tangibleness is irrelevant, as most often it it used to represent that which is not tangible or real. It is most often used to represent the ephemeral possibility. [I'm gonna be something], [whatcha thinking bout? [something].

the word nothing cannot refer to anything real or true. It is a pro-form that represents the exact opposite of real. It is a pro-form with the very function of designating that which is obfuscated, unidentifiable, and undefinable.
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Last but not least, and to further clarify:

To say that a set is a sum of its components is not to say that a set is just that, given as a Unity, it becomes something else...but necessarily a something else,without negating what constitutes it, if only to confirming it !


last but not least, language as used is neither only semiotics or math. To argue that all words are symbols (placeholders) places all words in the same category, words. So if that is your case then yes nothing exists in the same sense that (can't believe I'm using this example, sound so much like (forum member X), it won't be long before I use Quito) unicorns exist.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 12:07 am
@GoshisDead,
I guess although interesting (your observations) you did n´t get the extension of my meaning...
It is not just about the words or concepts, is sets...everything and anything fits them and constitutes them...Things are, to use once more Cantor, Infinities with size !

(and I never said nothing exists..."it refers to what exist by negating it" is actually quite different)

Objectivity only goes so far...a place holder can itself be the concrete object of another yet bigger place holder... in the end of the day concrete or abstract may well just refer to familiar or unfamiliar...GRAVITAS !
 

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