mark noble
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jun, 2010 11:49 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Hi Filipe!

Nowhere! Which also doesn't exist.

Be brilliant, my friend.

Mark...
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 10 Jul, 2010 02:24 pm
@mark noble,
I'm answering Mark's question without reading more than the first page of this thread. Strictly speaking nothing, in the sense of no-thing, exists because there are no fixed things, only changing processes. "Things" are the way we categorize and freeze specified ephemeral processes. One might say that processes exist, but we must remember that, like Heraclitus' river, they are at the virtually same time present and absent.
More importantly the question raises a "false" issue. Pragmatically, if we didn't exist (in some technical sense) we would continue to live our lives (and carry on this conversation) AS IF we DID exist. Existence and non-existence in this sense would amount to a difference that makes no difference (Wm.James?).
north
 
  1  
Sat 10 Jul, 2010 09:45 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Quote:
I'm answering Mark's question without reading more than the first page of this thread. Strictly speaking nothing, in the sense of no-thing, exists because there are no fixed things, only changing processes.


Quote:
As simple as that.........DOES NOTHING EXIST???

In your opinion - does nothing exist, has it ever existed, can it ever exist?

Just tell it as you see it! All are welcome to throw it out there.

Thank you guys.
Mark...


so JlNobody your response to Marks question makes sense , HOW ?

Quote:
"Things" are the way we categorize and freeze specified ephemeral processes. One might say that processes exist, but we must remember that, like Heraclitus' river, they are at the virtually same time present and absent.
More importantly the question raises a "false" issue. Pragmatically, if we didn't exist (in some technical sense) we would continue to live our lives (and carry on this conversation) AS IF we DID exist. Existence and non-existence in this sense would amount to a difference that makes no difference (Wm.James?).


what came first , the things , or the way we categorize things ?
0 Replies
 
Specter
 
  1  
Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:54 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Hi Ken,
1) Your interpretation (does nothing exist?) Assumes that everything does not exist.
2) My interpretation (Does noothing exist) Assumes that there is potentially a place where there is nothing, such as before the big bang, at the end of time, in a part of the universe.
Thank you ken.
Mark...


this subject of philosophical conjecture, more than most, is free to wild and divergent interpretations. to be specific in the matter, i will address the interpretations enumerated in the above quotation.
1. this interpretation has been thrown around by philosophers. it is put into a simple question. does everything really exist, or is it all in my head? put in the context of the "nothingness" dilemma, one supposes that reality is actually nothingness, and by consciousness, we create the reality we know. in this light, nothingness of course exists, and is our pure, yet unknown state.

2. in this case, the answer can be yes or no. for the affirmative, it can be argued that the presence of a supreme being accounts for the "times" before and after time, and the belief that nothing existed until creation, and nothing may exist at the end of time. for the negative, it can also be argued that the concept of "nothing" presupposes that it is immeasurable, and thus it is impossible for there to be a place or area of nothingness, since it creates a paradox.

of course i am no philosophical expert or great mind, and i admit i may be incorrect on some (or all lol) of my response. personally, i think that "nothing" does not exist. even if one sites deep space as containing "nothing", but even in remote places in the universe where there may be no large bodies, light, gamma, beta, radio, gravity and all sorts of rays and waves travel through space at all times and in all directions. this means that even in the most remote and seemingly empty parts of the universe, there are still elements familiar and unfamiliar to us.
0 Replies
 
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Mon 9 Aug, 2010 07:17 pm
It seems dubious to speak about the absence of everything, considering the possibillity of substances that we cannot yet detect. We conceptualize things in relation to one another, not in absolute terms.

Nothing is obviously not verifiable, you wouldn't recognize it if you 'saw it' (you couldn't really see anything that isn't transmitting anything your senses could detect except perhaps by its contrast with other things). If you define it as 'the absence of all things that we are familiar with and can currently detect' you have something more coherent. You still would have a dubious conceptualization of this phenomena. It would be vacuously at absolute zero and exert no forces, but I do not know how an object exhibiting familiar properties might react to this sort of vacuum.

i think that the lesson here is that absolutes are usually incoherent upon close examination. They generally are unverifiable by definition, i.e. you wouldn't be able to recognize them in principle. What you are doing is taking the concept of a 'limit' and applying it to reality. You take contrasting pictures of reality, one with more stuff and one with less stuff and derive a pattern for 'stuff removal'. Then you take the limit of this process (the result after infinite applications or perhaps only finite, with the added assumption that since the current model predicts a discrete model of the universe we should adopt that model as correct).
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Mon 9 Aug, 2010 08:25 pm
Hi All!

Can we agree that 'something' cannot arise from 'nothing'?
Ergo, if something exists (and it does) there was never 'nothing'.

Kind regards!
Mark...
0 Replies
 
ikurwa89
 
  1  
Thu 9 Sep, 2010 07:21 am
@mark noble,
Well, I think it's fair if you define what you mean by "nothing" and "exist".

Fido
 
  1  
Thu 9 Sep, 2010 11:06 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89 wrote:

Well, I think it's fair if you define what you mean by "nothing" and "exist".



As if infinites could ever be defined...
Ding an Sich
 
  1  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:12 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

ikurwa89 wrote:

Well, I think it's fair if you define what you mean by "nothing" and "exist".



As if infinites could ever be defined...


As if!

Well is not existence a mere quality to something that brings it into the world? It is an object as actuality if I am not mistaken.

Nothing... no-thing... A thing that is not? Perhaps nothing deals with the non-existence of a thing. In which case we must presuppose that something to exist. Yea something like that haha.
Fido
 
  1  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 07:30 am
@Ding an Sich,
Ding an Sich wrote:

Fido wrote:

ikurwa89 wrote:

Well, I think it's fair if you define what you mean by "nothing" and "exist".



As if infinites could ever be defined...


As if!

Well is not existence a mere quality to something that brings it into the world? It is an object as actuality if I am not mistaken.

Nothing... no-thing... A thing that is not? Perhaps nothing deals with the non-existence of a thing. In which case we must presuppose that something to exist. Yea something like that haha.
Not... Existence is a form of consciousness... Existence is what, and all that brings anything into our consciousness, so that we say God, and nothing exist when we are only saying we are conscious of them out of our own existence...That stuff of bringing it into the world is either phrased wrongly, or simply wrong...
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 01:19 pm
Existence = Thing
Nothing = No Thing

Can no thing be thing?

Of course not.

Have a lovely evening all!
Mark...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 01:59 pm
@mark noble,
The only way of considering a void is through means of compartmentalising it, surrounding it with something...same is to say, there is no chance of considering an absolute void if not by means of relation, contrast, and seizable finity which in turn makes it not an absolute, in fact not even a void given it has a measurable size making it something between something...

A void to be a void cannot have any type of constrains therefore is not thinkable...it is not !

I guess you both are right in its own aspects...
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  2  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 02:09 pm
One must first look at the usage and the function of that word's usage. Defining a word does no do the work to tell a person what that word means and how it is used in an actual language situation. With all these does nowhere, nobody, nothing exist questiong that have been popping up, it seems people can't get past a dictionary definition. Enlgish doesn;t have that many, but take a look at inflectected morphemes. /-s/ can be one of two things as a suffix. It can pluralize attached to a noun (cat-s dog-s) or it can mark third person singular when attached to a verb (wear-s run-s). These are examples of morphemes that serve a function but don't really mean anything as a word in itself.

The negative pro-forms are sort of like this. They have meaning but their value is more in the function they serve within a sentence of conversation. 'Nothing' is a simple negativizer. One expects there to be something in almost all nomral circumstances and nothing negativizes the expectation. Negativizers are used under all sorts of motives but normally provide the same function and should not be cofused with a straight negative. In order for a negativizer to work it must nullify a norm. a negative is simply a staement in the negative. Thus no and not can be used as pure negatives, but nobody, no one, nowhere, nothing etc.. cannot.

This is the reason why someone can clearly have in her hand something but say, "oh its nothing". This is why when someone is looking out a window upon a landscape he can say "nothing's out there". Nothing negativizes expectation and experience. It can only be fluently employed in situations where there is clearly the experiential expectation of somethingness. Even in situations where someone knows there should be actually nothing, like open space, it negativizes the experience of somethingness.

0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:07 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Existence = Thing
Nothing = No Thing

Can no thing be thing?

Of course not.

Have a lovely evening all!
Mark...
Existence is not thing, but everything, and we see the spaces, but we have no idea of its limits since existence is an infinite... We have had people try to prove that ether exists, what we think of something in nothing, but their failure proves nothing... Force at a distance cannot be explained...So what do we know except that existence is the whole picture even though we talk about things as res, that is re-s-ality... And existence includes the spaces in between... Don't you agree???
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:08 pm
@Fido,
Space has the property of allowing movement of objects in it...is far from nothingness...
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Sat 11 Sep, 2010 07:33 am
@Fido,
Hi Fido!

Hope you are feeling good today.

Exist = thing.

Even if their is only one thing, that one thing constitutes as 'everything'.

If 'everything' is one thing, then one thing is 'everything'.

So the question arises (new thread): Is everything one thing?

Be fantastic Fido!
Mark...
Fido
 
  1  
Sat 11 Sep, 2010 11:54 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Hi Fido!

Hope you are feeling good today.

Exist = thing.

Even if their is only one thing, that one thing constitutes as 'everything'.

If 'everything' is one thing, then one thing is 'everything'.

So the question arises (new thread): Is everything one thing?

Be fantastic Fido!
Mark...


Once more, reality is thing, and we may well say reality exists, but existence is all things/res, and the space which contains them, and while I agree that space is hardly empty, as matter is hardly full, still matter as we know it, earth and solid objects is relatively full and space is relatively empty, and existence as a quasi concept points to each as a meaning..
mark noble
 
  1  
Sat 11 Sep, 2010 03:12 pm
@Fido,
No part of space is empty.
It just looks that way, mainly because we cannot see atomic particles, radio waves, radiation, etc.

I assure you there are no material-less places out there or in there.

Mark...
Fido
 
  1  
Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:16 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

No part of space is empty.
It just looks that way, mainly because we cannot see atomic particles, radio waves, radiation, etc.

I assure you there are no material-less places out there or in there.

Mark...

Thou shall not speak of infinites as though finite... We may say that space as we know it is matter lite, but not matter less... In fact, matter as we know it is matter lite as well, considering that were all the matter in the cosmos stripped of its energy, it might well fit in a teacup... Of so I have heard... Physics is fine to read, but my math skills are such that I cannot prove what I expect is true...
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Sat 11 Sep, 2010 08:25 pm
nothing is the complete and absolute opposite of something

 

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