Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 07:53 pm
@guigus,
There is no reasoning. Only useless babble.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 07:55 pm
@guigus,
guigus wrote:

Then please give us a context in which the existence of "not any thing" (or "not a thing," or "no thing," or "nothing") would not be "the absence of everything." Perhaps then I can see what I am "overlooking"...


Friend: What did you eat today?
Me: Not any thing.

vs.

Friend: What did you eat today?
Me: The absence of everything.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 07:59 pm
@Cyracuz,
Well, the point remains: with what can we fill the empty space?

_____ * 0 = 1

Valid answer: nothing.
Invalid answer: zero.
Conclusion: nothing is not zero.

It is as simple as it sounds.
guigus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:00 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

There is no reasoning. Only useless babble.


I suspect you just ran out of arguments...
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:06 pm
@guigus,
guigus wrote:

Well, the point remains: with what can we fill the empty space?

_____ * 0 = 1

Valid answer: nothing.
Invalid answer: zero.
Conclusion: nothing is not zero.

It is as simple as it sounds.


That's still the fallacy of reification.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:10 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

guigus wrote:

Then please give us a context in which the existence of "not any thing" (or "not a thing," or "no thing," or "nothing") would not be "the absence of everything." Perhaps then I can see what I am "overlooking"...


Friend: What did you eat today?
Me: Not any thing.

vs.

Friend: What did you eat today?
Me: The absence of everything.


Although you would never use those words (the absence of everything) to say that you ate nothing today, they would do just fine, at least logically. Of course everyone would call you a pedant, but this is another problem. And although "not any thing" would sound a little less pedant, people don't say that either. People usually say: I ate nothing today. Damn nothing!
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:12 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

guigus wrote:

Well, the point remains: with what can we fill the empty space?

_____ * 0 = 1

Valid answer: nothing.
Invalid answer: zero.
Conclusion: nothing is not zero.

It is as simple as it sounds.


That's still the fallacy of reification.


Do you really think that repeating something numberless times really makes it a truth? This is a slight variation of Goebbels: "proof by repetition"...
Night Ripper
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:17 pm
@guigus,
guigus wrote:

Night Ripper wrote:

guigus wrote:

Well, the point remains: with what can we fill the empty space?

_____ * 0 = 1

Valid answer: nothing.
Invalid answer: zero.
Conclusion: nothing is not zero.

It is as simple as it sounds.


That's still the fallacy of reification.


Do you really think that repeating something numberless times really makes it a truth? This is a slight variation of Goebbels: "proof by repetition"...


I'm not concerned if you don't believe me. Anyone can read about the fallacy and see that you are in fact committing it.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:36 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

guigus wrote:

Night Ripper wrote:

guigus wrote:

Well, the point remains: with what can we fill the empty space?

_____ * 0 = 1

Valid answer: nothing.
Invalid answer: zero.
Conclusion: nothing is not zero.

It is as simple as it sounds.


That's still the fallacy of reification.


Do you really think that repeating something numberless times really makes it a truth? This is a slight variation of Goebbels: "proof by repetition"...


I'm not concerned if you don't believe me. Anyone can read about the fallacy and see that you are in fact committing it.


You are not concerned with many things. And logic is not about believing, that one is religion. Let me show you some logic:

By saying "nothing multiplied by zero equals one" is false, you are saying that "something multiplied by zero equals one" is true. However, it is rather the latter that is false.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:41 pm
@guigus,
Not exactly. It's just that nobody's ability to make arguments can compare to your ability to ignore them.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:43 pm
@guigus,
When you claim "nothing is not zero", you are claiming "not any thing is not zero", which simplifies to "any thing is zero", which is false.
Night Ripper
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 08:49 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Not exactly. It's just that nobody's ability to make arguments can compare to your ability to ignore them.


Watch out, he's going to start thinking "nobody" is the name of a person...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 10:12 pm
@Night Ripper,
You guy´s should earn a patience prize money !...
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 03:40 am
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

When you claim "nothing is not zero", you are claiming "not any thing is not zero", which simplifies to "any thing is zero", which is false.


Even worse to you: I am telling you that being and nothingness are the same. But you believe it is false, and based on that belief you deny a strictly logical conclusion. And yet it is your own logical reasoning that is telling you that, so you are ignoring not me, but yourself. Or are you capable of showing me a flaw on the following reasoning?

By saying "nothing multiplied by zero equals one" is false, you are saying that "something multiplied by zero equals one" is true. However, the latter is false, hence the former is true.

Forget a moment about your beliefs and reason -- since thinking without ever putting your beliefs on the line is not thinking.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:15 am
@guigus,
...first you have to understand that something multiplied by zero is not multiplied at all...less alone nothing... I think NR was n´t up to believe the degree of insanity in your reasoning or that you meant what you actually meant...

...you fail to realize the basics, that you need operators to make an operation...from there there´s nothing else to say to you...
guigus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:45 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
...first you have to understand that something multiplied by zero is not multiplied at all...


Then, according to you:

1. A number is not something.
2. A number is nothing.
3. Nothing is all numbers.
4. Nothing can be multiplied by zero, as also by any number.

I can only regret your incapacity to reason logically.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
less alone nothing... I think NR was n´t up to believe the degree of insanity in your reasoning or that you meant what you actually meant...


I can only regret logically thinking being "insanity" to you.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
...you fail to realize the basics, that you need operators to make an operation...from there there´s nothing else to say to you...


Even though these operators are not something, right? It is indeed obvious that you have nothing to say to me.
guigus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:50 am
(And my arguments go unanswered...)

guigus wrote:
By saying "nothing multiplied by zero equals one" is false, you are saying that "something multiplied by zero equals one" is true. However, the latter is false, hence the former is true.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 09:51 am
@guigus,
If I remember correctly I did n´t said that zero is not a number or that it is n´t anything...it is in fact a number and it can have value when in direct relation with another number either to its right or to its left...also it is true that zero in itself normally represents an absence and therefore its relational value is null for any mathematical operation, nor adding or diminishing anything to any other potential operator in relation with it precisely because there´s nothing there to be added in the first place...that you want to debate the obvious its well OK just as long you are able to present any solid evidence to do so...nevertheless given this is ultimately a matter of convention regarding what zero can represent mathematically, ultimately there´s nothing to discuss...

Zero its not absolute nothingness, its a number which expresses absence in between the presence of anything else which is far different...being the matter about what can be debated philosophically, specifically what can be thought of nothingness itself, and not about the usefulness of the mathematical concept of zero which is defined as a given therefore not open for discussion I can´t actually conceive any appropriate argument to continue nurturing the delusional nonsense in which you indulge yourself so easily...at best I can respect your intention as truthful, but then, that leaves you in a far worst situation regarding your mental condition...
0 Replies
 
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 09:52 am
@guigus,
guigus wrote:

(And my arguments go unanswered...)

guigus wrote:
By saying "nothing multiplied by zero equals one" is false, you are saying that "something multiplied by zero equals one" is true. However, the latter is false, hence the former is true.



As does mine...

Quote:
When you claim "nothing is not zero", you are claiming "not any thing is not zero", which simplifies to "any thing is zero", which is false.


Let me know when you have something to say to this.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 10:24 am
@Night Ripper,
This is confusing. Are you arguing that the word, "nothing," pr0perly denotes a no-thing or does it denote the absence of anything? Or, more interesting to me, does it describe a fundamental quality of everything, the emptiness of all things because of their fundamental character of becoming rather than being (i.e., change rather than statis).
 

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