And is O' just a shortening of Of, in which case is in an English invention, or is it a Gaelic word/particle?
The tenth century prefix 'O' signifies 'grandson of' or 'descendant' and indicates the patronymic origin of the name ... and of Gaelic origin.
Noddy, of course. Mr. Jones wouldn't have wanted anyone to know, and neither would Miss Smith or little Joey!
And of course it wouldn't be immediately obvious if they were called Fitz, would it?
Or would it?
I like the possibility of naming oneself after a grandparent rather than a parent. I could be O'Harold rather than Richards - although as only a daughter I wouldn't have much claim on a surname at all, I suppose. Apparently the charming 'dottir' added to Icelandic names is a 20th century invention.
Well, yeah, it would be obvious. Which is why the by-blow of a king or prince would be proud to add the Fitz to his name, but an ordinary bastard would hide it... and why a noble would allow it -- the fitz-son would possibly be allowed to inherit if there were no legitimate heirs.
And because Fitz is so Frenchified, the locals wouldn't use it anyway, bloody aristocrats and their sniffy language. Unless there was pecunary gain to be had, of course.
My surname, Vickers, is said to come from 'son of a vicar' at the time when vicars didn't marry - so I guess just a simple s would have done for hoi polloi.
One of the "traditional" Cockney joys was heading out of London to the countryside at the end of the summer to help harvest the hops (a major ingredient in beer brewing).
At the end of springtime, there was always a bumper crop of foundlings who were know as "hop kids". Supposedly the name "Hopkins"--as in "Johns Hopkins" refers to these little woods colts.
This may well be dubious etomology.
Lots of etymology is dubious. Some say the more logical a derivation is, the less likely it's true...
Very dubious, if colourful, I'm afraid Noddy. Hop is a diminutive of Robert (why? you may ask) and the little Hopkinses were running around as long ago as the 13th century. way before those Cockneys started hop-picking in Kent. Hop-pickin', finger-lickin', beer-swillin' little tykes.
One more shattered illusion.
Oh no!!
Maybe I can give you good news about your own name? E g Golightly or Wellbeloved??
Clary -- the 'dottir' in Icelandic (once also common in other Scandinavian languages) is hardly a 20th Century innovation. Quite the opposite. The Icelanders are the only Scandinavians to have kept up the old tradition. Back in the Midle Ages and earlier, when the concept of a 'family' name was not quite developed yet, there was a patronymic for sons and likewise for daughters in general use. Sven's sons would get the surname of Svensson and his daughters would all be Svensdottir.
Getting back to the original discussion, it might be interesting to some that in the Latvian language the clavicle is known as the keybone, rather than the collarbone.
Although I've never heard of anyone using Fitz to describe anything other than "son of", it doesn't surprise me that an Irish name could become synomous with Bastard. It wasn't too long ago that anything Irish in Britain was looked upon in an ill light. So I think it is more of a derogatory slur than an actual explanation of the true meaning of the word/pre-fix, like Mick.
from etymonline:
Quote:
fitz - Anglo-Fr. fitz, from O.Fr. fils, from L. filius "son of" (see filial); used regularly in official rolls and hence the first element of many modern surnames; in later times used of illegitimate issue of royalty.
I'd guess the Irish name arose separately...
Could have devoloped quite seperately in the Celtic branch of the Indo-Germanic language family, while your reference points at the Latin branch of it.
