Does time really exist?

kennethamy wrote:

Dr Seuss wrote:

Time is the illusion that something has taken place or will take place. When one waits for something time exists. When one remembers something from the past, time exists. Since we are creatures motivated by desire, time always exists for us in our conscious awareness.

I hope it doesn't because I missed my appointment with my dentist, and he get mad when I do. So if I can just persuade him that time doesn't really exist I am out of trouble. But, I know him. He won't care whether or not time really exists. All he'll care about is whether time exists.

kennethamy

you don't get it

time is the way we order this planet , trains , appointments , air-travel

now ask time to actually influence any movement between things , in and of its self , time can't do it

because time is not , in and of its self a physical entity

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

Dr Seuss wrote:

Time is the illusion that something has taken place or will take place. When one waits for something time exists. When one remembers something from the past, time exists. Since we are creatures motivated by desire, time always exists for us in our conscious awareness.

I hope it doesn't because I missed my appointment with my dentist, and he get mad when I do. So if I can just persuade him that time doesn't really exist I am out of trouble. But, I know him. He won't care whether or not time really exists. All he'll care about is whether time exists.

kennethamy

you don't get it

time is the way we order this planet , trains , appointments , air-travel

now ask time to actually influence any movement between things , in and of its self , time can't do it

because time is not , in and of its self a physical entity

Quote:

May I use you as an authority? Maybe that will convince my dentist.
But if time does not exist (or, if you prefer, really exist) then how can I be late for appointments? Can you explain that to me?

time is based on the movement of things

and in this case , time is based on greenwhich time , watch time

which is based on the rotation of the Earth , you know that

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

Dr Seuss wrote:

Time is the illusion that something has taken place or will take place. When one waits for something time exists. When one remembers something from the past, time exists. Since we are creatures motivated by desire, time always exists for us in our conscious awareness.

I hope it doesn't because I missed my appointment with my dentist, and he get mad when I do. So if I can just persuade him that time doesn't really exist I am out of trouble. But, I know him. He won't care whether or not time really exists. All he'll care about is whether time exists.

kennethamy

you don't get it

time is the way we order this planet , trains , appointments , air-travel

now ask time to actually influence any movement between things , in and of its self , time can't do it

because time is not , in and of its self a physical entity

Quote:

May I use you as an authority? Maybe that will convince my dentist.
But if time does not exist (or, if you prefer, really exist) then how can I be late for appointments? Can you explain that to me?

time is based on the movement of things

and in this case , time is based on greenwhich time , watch time

which is based on the rotation of the Earth , you know that

But, given all that, does that mean I was or was not late for my appointment with the dentist? Or, are you saying it had nothing to do with it? If someone tells me that time does not exist, I expect that he is telling me something that I believed was true, and now he is telling my that I was misguided. But if it turns out that whether or not time exists has nothing to do with whether I am late for appointments, and if the reason I believed that time does exist is that I believed that I could be late for appointments, I wonder what it is he is telling me that I believed was true, but is now telling me I should not believe. I believed time exists because I believed I could be late for appointments. But now I am told that whether or not time exists has no effect on whether I can be late for appointments. So I wonder what I am now being told is not true that I once believed was true, since why I believed time existed was because I believed I could be late for appointments. But apparently time need not exist for me to be late for appointments. So, you can see why I am a little confused.

time is only real in the sense that there is movement BECAUSE of the interactions of things , rotation , and the change in position of things from where they were to were they are now

so time is not a physical entity , but a measure of movement or change

you can't grasp or make time a physical object

north wrote:

time is only real in the sense that there is movement BECAUSE of the interactions of things , rotation , and the change in position of things from where they were to were they are now

so time is not a physical entity , but a measure of movement or change

you can't grasp or make time a physical object

So, when someone told me that time was not real I was relieved since I felt guilty about being such a procrastinator, and now I thought I did not have to worry about that any more. But now you tell me (I think) that I still have to worry about my habit of procrastination even if time is not real.

So, the question inevitably occurs to me, that if it doesn't matter whether or not time is real, why should I worry about it.

Man is the measure of all things

...and by "world" you mean "social world" .

Man is the measure of all things

this means inotherwords that Man measures all things

Quote:

this means inotherwords that Man measures all things

Not quite....

Man IS the measure of all THINGS.

...Without man there would be no "things" because the first level of measurement is defined as "the nominal" (naming or "thinging"). Further levels of measurement (ordinal, interval and ratio) are predicated on level 1.

Because the thing we call a "time" was also "thinged" by by man.

So, it is our fault that the Moon is older than we are? And that is your answer?

Quote:

So, it is our fault that the Moon is older than we are? And that is your answer?

No, that is a facile comment worthy of an average high school student.

Your "appreciation" would presumably be of the same nature as Portnoy's father, who on being taken to a celebrated French restaurant, said ,"bring me a piece of fish, and make sure its hot !"
("Portnoy's Complaint)

Okay here's a definitive answer.

In those contexts where "the age of celestial objects" is a matter of concern i.e. in arguments about biblical statements, or the retrodictive and predictive modus operandi of (most) scientists it "makes sense" to say "the moon is older than the age of man as a species". Such a statement WORKS in that it satisfies the communicative needs of those particular interlocutors. But to demand " the truth" of the statement is totally without meaning when discussing the concept of "existence" , because that already assumes "existence" is independent of the actions and physiology of observers. i.e. "Non-contextual truth" is meaningless.

If you want to call yourself a philosopher you cannot make that assumption. especially when some contemporary scientists question such a notion themselves.

Now having given you a definitive answer , why don't you surprise us all by indicating that you understand it, rather than countering with some irrelevant verbiage which amounts to sticking your fingers in your ears and singing ?

I believe we are living in motion not in time.

Luzy wrote:

I believe we are living in motion not in time.

Quote:

Can you define motion without including time?

you can't DEFINE motion without including time , but TIME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WITH THE ESSENCE OF THE MOTION IN THE FIRST PLACE , OF THINGS

thats whats important to understand