Does time really exist?

@Diogenes phil,

Diogenes;163699 wrote:

From a realist's perspective, of course. Is there any evidence of time's "existence," or is it just another concept devised by mankind to measure the chaos in this world?

Well really it is to sequence the ordered change in the world. If the oscillations of crystals were chaotic they would not make a very good basis for watches, would they?
In fact if nature were truely chaotic and not highly ordered and sequential (temporal), neither time nor casuality would be of much use, would they?

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@Diogenes phil,

Diogenes;163699 wrote:

From a realist's perspective, of course. Is there any evidence of time's "existence," or is it just another concept devised by mankind to measure the chaos in this world?

If time does not really exist, that's great. I have a root canal appointment with the dentist tomorrow. But what a disappointment it will be for me if it turn out that I still have an appointment with the dentist tomorrow if time exists, but I don't if time does not really exists. Since I have this awful sinking feeling that I will have to keep my appointment if time exists even if time does not really exist.

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@Diogenes phil,

Diogenes;163699 wrote:

From a realist's perspective, of course. Is there any evidence of time's "existence," or is it just another concept devised by mankind to measure the chaos in this world?

It exists as much as an inch exists. My money is n concept.

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@Diogenes phil,

Diogenes;163699 wrote:

From a realist's perspective, of course. Is there any evidence of time's "existence," or is it just another concept devised by mankind to measure the chaos in this world?

Sure...Time exist in terms of matter and space, and it is the equal of life; and life is no more easily provable than time... We can measure time by space and space by time, but life gives time and space meaning, and without life there is no time or space..

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@Diogenes phil,

What is this strange word "exist"? Does love exist? Does the idea of nothingness exist? I think it comes down to the definition of "exist" and also of "time."

I don't think that either can be perfectly defined, unless we narrow the meaning down for a particular application.

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@Fido,

Fido;163723 wrote:

Sure...Time exist in terms of matter and space, and it is the equal of life; and life is no more easily provable than time... We can measure time by space and space by time, but life gives time and space meaning, and without life there is no time or space..

Can you expand on how space is dependent on life. I don't understand this.

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@trismegisto,

trismegisto;164311 wrote:

Can you expand on how space is dependent on life. I don't understand this.

I tried to say we can only understand space in terms of time, the time it takes us or matter to traverse a certain area; but time alone is life... Like the prostitute said: all you bought is time...Well, God or Nature is no more kind... Your life is only time, and it is only in relation to your life that the future or past have meaning, that anything, time included has meaning... No life equals no meaning... Simple... Really... So while we cannot say time exists any more than space exists, it is life which gives meaning to both.... So time is not really a concept no matter how we try to measure it.... Time is like God, or existence itself...Time is a moral form, something without being that we find meaning in...

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@Fido,

Fido;164315 wrote:

I tried to say we can only understand space in terms of time, the time it takes us or matter to traverse a certain area; but time alone is life... Like the prostitute said: all you bought is time...Well, God or Nature is no more kind... Your life is only time, and it is only in relation to your life that the future or past have meaning, that anything, time included has meaning... No life equals no meaning... Simple... Really...

Quote:

So while we cannot say time exists any more than space exists,

to compare time to space is erroneous

time is based on movement(s) of things

while space is essential for the manifestion of things , space gives things the room to become , which then allows movement

---------- Post added 05-14-2010 at 03:48 PM ----------

the purpose of time , is to understand the Nature of the interactions between things and the Nature of the thing its self

time exists in the sense that we can measure the above

but in NO way does time play a part in my first statement

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@north,

A river of moments passing me by never to return. I can remember those moments with new moments and I can have expectations of future moments with moments but this moment has no value for itself.

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@xris,

xris;164327 wrote:

A river of moments passing me by never to return. I can remember those moments with new moments and I can have expectations of future moments with moments but this moment has no value for itself.

your point ? towards the thread

1 Reply

@north,

north;164331 wrote:

your point ? towards the thread

Sorry was there something wrong with what I said?...time is only remembered it does not exist as we imagine. Consciousness is not experiencing time but recording its passing. So you must ask what do we call time before we can ask if it exists.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris;164333 wrote:

Sorry was there something wrong with what I said?...time is only remembered it does not exist as we imagine. Consciousness is not experiencing time but recording its passing. So you must ask what do we call time before we can ask if it exists.

we call time or we should call time , the experience of movement

and space-time pin points that movement at that moment , by things

1 Reply

@north,

north;164318 wrote:

to compare time to space is erroneous

time is based on movement(s) of things

while space is essential for the manifestion of things , space gives things the room to become , which then allows movement

---------- Post added 05-14-2010 at 03:48 PM ----------

the purpose of time , is to understand the Nature of the interactions between things and the Nature of the thing its self

time exists in the sense that we can measure the above

but in NO way does time play a part in my first statement

You are saying time has a purpose...Now would be a good time to prove it... For example, who does time have a purpose to??? If it only exists to fill our needs then it does not exist at all...Because, again we only exist in time, as a feature of time, and not outside of it

Next; time is space, whether you agree or not, because, as you say: the movement of things requires space; -and time, which is a reflection of space... To say space gives thing the room is pure cant...Space is a metaphore for nothing, is nothing, gives nothing... On the other hand, I have the support of science, unless you can express a light year in some other fashion than time or space.

1 Reply

@north,

north;164342 wrote:

we call time or we should call time , the experience of movement

and space-time pin points that movement at that moment , by things

Then try putting your finger on, now, if you could, time would cease to exist. Look at a point in a river and tell me, do you see the water or the movement of the water? Its gone before you can touch it.

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@Fido,

Fido;164348 wrote:

You are saying time has a purpose...Now would be a good time to prove it... For example, who does time have a purpose to???

who ?

times purpose is to help us understand the movement of things , the whys , hows , and whats

Quote:

If it only exists to fill our needs then it does not exist at all...Because, again we only exist in time, as a feature of time, and not outside of it

your right time does not exist at all , in the sense that it matters how objects behave

time influences nothing , no bonds , no attractions , no space , no creation of anything physical

Quote:

Next; time is space,

time is NOT space under any circumstances

Quote:

whether you agree or not, because, as you say: the movement of things requires space; -and time, which is a reflection of space...

time is not a reflection of space at all

time has nothing to do with space

time is the consequence of movement by objects within a said space

Quote:

To say space gives thing the room is pure cant...Space is a metaphore for nothing, is nothing, gives nothing... On the other hand, I have the support of science, unless you can express a light year in some other fashion than time or space.

space is NOT a metaphore for nothing

space provides the room needed for light and matter to exist and expand

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;163763 wrote:

What is this strange word "exist"? Does love exist? Does the idea of nothingness exist? I think it comes down to the definition of "exist" and also of "time."

I don't think that either can be perfectly defined, unless we narrow the meaning down for a particular application.

"Exist" is not a particularly strange word. It is a common term in English. However, philosophers (and philosophical wannabees) have played havoc with the term. For that reason, I agree with Quine when he suggested that we abandon the word to the metaphysicians who have alienated the word, and instead take possession of the the terms, "there is" and the term, "there are", in other words, the existential quantified. We know exactly what the existential quantifier means, and it will certainly do the job of "exists". So, I ceremonially make a present to you and yours of "exist" to trash as you like (sorry "exist" but you die in a good cause) and we will take the existential quantifier "there is" and "there are". Deal?

By the by: I think it comes down to the definition of "exist" and also of "time."

Now there is an original thought. As a matter of fact, whether Caesar murdered Brutus, or whether Brutus murdered Caesar, partly comes down to the definition of "Caesar", "Brutus", and, of course, "murdered". Whatever anyone says at least partly comes down to what the words he used mean.

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@Diogenes phil,

so Kennethamy

" is there " time , that really " is there " ?

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@north,

So...two pages of a discussion about time go by without the word "relativity" making an appearance?

North, you are avoiding the question. Obviously time represents the interactions of matter, but the philosophical bus does not stop there. Gravity represents the mutual attraction between masses, but philosophically is that how you want to define gravity?

A coherent interpretation of relativity is that time is a 4th spatial dimension, and what we subsist in is an interwoven space-time. We don't know exactly what "space" is either so I guess that adds to the problem.

Experts on relativity will tell you that their best description about what exactly the light speed limit represents, is a "straight line" between spatiotemporal points. What that means is that if an object is a minimum of 300,000 kilometers away from me, it is also a minimum of one second away from me (C=300,000 km/sec).

My personal view is that at least a 5th dimensional spatial interaction is necessary to complete the picture. We can say that we actually exist in a possibility space which we move through in spatiotemporal frames which are the "size" of Planck length and Planck time. So objects are some exact number of spatiotemporal frames from one another. (This is expanded from the view that we are moving through 3d spatial frames through temporality). I'll explain more if anyone wants but its mainly speculative with some inferences from relativity/quantum theory.

1 Reply

@north,

north;164355 wrote:

who ?

times purpose is to help us understand the movement of things , the whys , hows , and whats

your right time does not exist at all , in the sense that it matters how objects behave

time influences nothing , no bonds , no attractions , no space , no creation of anything physical

time is NOT space under any circumstances

time is not a reflection of space at all

time has nothing to do with space

time is the consequence of movement by objects within a said space

space is NOT a metaphore for nothing

space provides the room needed for light and matter to exist and expand

I hate to give up on a cardinal direction; but I am about to... No words of mine will ever be a substitute for you using your own bean...What is a light year if time is not space??? What is a year???They all equal a certain distance, space...

1 Reply

Does time really exist?

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