Athiests do not exist?

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;153424 wrote:

When are we going to take responsibilty for ourselves?
God gave us freedom, when are we going to stop torturing ourselves?
The day we release the self.

Evil was the first conception of 'self'
Lucifer may have been the first person?

Lucifer was the rejection by god , of an angel , who loved god

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne;153419 wrote:

When I see congregations of atheists getting together to serve meals to the poor, build houses for humanity, provide shelter for the homeless. Then will I believe we have outgrown God.

I have no clue if this is credible I thought that you could be the judge.

Atheist Charities:detective:

1 Reply

@north,

north;153428 wrote:

Lucifer was the rejection by god , of an angel , who loved god

HMMMMMMM, did the fall occur before or after mankind was created?
I think you will find the first rejection was the first angels rejection of the last creation.

But where do you get this information from? intereseted.

0 Replies

@north,

north;153422 wrote:

god did with adam and eve

and with lucifer

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 12:21 AM ----------

there are actually programs that do help the poor in Africa that are not religious based

Sure there are ,but it's not some atheist organisation that is running them. Most likely the prime movers are religious.
In spite of it's failings, religion gets things done.

There is no utopia , to slam theism for the humaness of it's participants is narrow minded, atheists are just as human.
The difference is that religious groups can and do accomplish much.
Atheism is not likely to form groups that have much effect on humanity.
Regardless of how much an atheist cares for humanity, individuals don't accomplish much without some sort of unity.
Theists have unity, imperfect, yes, but unity.

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne;153419 wrote:

When I see congregations of atheists getting together to serve meals to the poor, build houses for humanity, provide shelter for the homeless. Then will I believe we have outgrown God.

There have been many. There are even youtube atheists that show their charities and they even promote such causes even religious ones.

Humanity is in the process of outgrowing the god concept. There are still many who are resistant to realize their invisible friend is not real.

1 Reply

@wayne,

What is there for a human being to have faith in but human beings?

What is faith?

What is a human being?

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 05:43 AM ----------

Krumple;153433 wrote:

There have been many. There are even youtube atheists that show their charities and they even promote such causes even religious ones.

Humanity is in the process of outgrowing the god concept. There are still many who are resistant to realize their invisible friend is not real.

Just because you can find them does not mean they are everywhere.

What do you think charity is?
Where do you think charity comes from?
(no judgements)

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic;153429 wrote:

I have no clue if this is credible I thought that you could be the judge.

Atheist Charities:detective:

This is all pretty new, good ideas it appears, i'm a bit concerned that their motivations seem to be anti-religious rather than humanistic like they are claiming.

I wonder how atheists find each other, this is the first group i've seen.
Let's see if it lasts, I hope it does, but I also worry about the anti religion aspect. If they can simply do good things without attacking religion, it would be great.

1 Reply

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;153434 wrote:

What is there for a human being to have faith in but human beings?

Humanity , all Humanity

Quote:

What is faith?

belief

that Humanity will grow and mature to the point , that Humanity will out grow , religious faith and have faith and beleive in its own being

Quote:

What is a human being?

Humankind

1 Reply

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;153434 wrote:

Just because you can find them does not mean they are everywhere.

What do you think charity is?
Where do you think charity comes from?
(no judgements)

Empathy. When a person realizes they are just like everyone else you can see yourself in someone who is suffering. Those who value human life will always want to help those who's lives are threatened. However if you want to give all the credit to only religion then I should remind you that religion has also been the catalyst for many human sufferings.

You don't have to be religious at all to have empathy for humanity.

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Krumple;153433 wrote:

There have been many. There are even youtube atheists that show their charities and they even promote such causes even religious ones.

Humanity is in the process of outgrowing the god concept. There are still many who are resistant to realize their invisible friend is not real.

I think all this is great, and I hope it continues.
I am not religious at all, or try not to be.
It is religion that is dangerous, not theism.
Militant atheism would be just as dangerous, and religious in its own right.
God belief is a personal matter, and should never be judged by anyone else, no less it should never judge anyone else .
Maybe we just need to outgrow religions.

1 Reply

@north,

north;153437 wrote:

Humanity , all Humanity

belief

that Humanity will grow and mature to the point , that Humanity will out grow , religious faith and have faith and beleive in its own being

Humankind

Do you really think the religious do not have faith and belief in Humanity?

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 05:57 AM ----------

Krumple;153438 wrote:

Empathy. When a person realizes they are just like everyone else you can see yourself in someone who is suffering. Those who value human life will always want to help those who's lives are threatened. However if you want to give all the credit to only religion then I should remind you that religion has also been the catalyst for many human sufferings.

You don't have to be religious at all to have empathy for humanity.

I agree whole heartedly
Religion also helps the helpless.

1 Reply

@sometime sun,

Quote:
Originally Posted by north

http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif

Humanity , all Humanity

belief

that Humanity will grow and mature to the point , that Humanity will out grow , religious faith and have faith and beleive in its own being

Humankind

Quote:

Do you really think the religious do not have faith and belief in Humanity?

NO

the religious only believe in Humanity , as second to god

for me god should be second to Humanity

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Krumple;153398 wrote:

I probably would have but you don't see the contradiction here? You expect me to accept your argument without any thing to back it up with? Then you want me to provide something tangible for you because your statement is clearly wrong? Why not use your own ability to do research before you make statements? Google is your friend, why do you expect me to do all your homework for you?

I missed this one,
I expect you to do the homework,
you to convince me of you,
I'm only trying to convince myself,
not you of me.

(well maybe just a little, but not for the reasons you discredit me for)

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 06:10 AM ----------

north;153443 wrote:

NO

the religious only believe in Humanity , as second to god

for me god should be second to Humanity

Not second,
BECAUSE of,
totally different.

0 Replies

@wayne,

wayne;153439 wrote:

I think all this is great, and I hope it continues.
I am not religious at all, or try not to be.
It is religion that is dangerous, not theism.
Militant atheism would be just as dangerous, and religious in its own right.
God belief is a personal matter, and should never be judged by anyone else, no less it should never judge anyone else .
Maybe we just need to outgrow religions.

I agree, however I have never seen a militant atheist hurt anyone. I don't see atheists killing religious people. I don't think militant atheists will ever resort to violence. Or show me one that has.

I am fine with people keeping their religion to themselves and keeping it out of politics. So far many of them still think they deserve to have political say which they don't. Many religiously motivated laws actually cause more harm then they ever solve.

Atheists are not heartless or apathetic to helping those who could use help. I know there are some atheists who hold a level of discrimination and dislike for what ever reason, but it is wrong to think all of them are.

2 Replies

@Krumple,

Krumple;153446 wrote:

I agree, however I have never seen a militant atheist hurt anyone. I don't see atheists killing religious people. I don't think militant atheists will ever resort to violence. Or show me one that has.

When you say one I think you're right. Atheists have no history of forming atheist groups and causing harm per se, although soviet russia was ,I think, based in atheism.

Krumple;153446 wrote:

I am fine with people keeping their religion to themselves and keeping it out of politics. So far many of them still think they deserve to have political say which they don't. Many religiously motivated laws actually cause more harm then they ever solve.

I agree that religion has no place in politics. However I am adamant about the distinction between religion and personal theism. The idea of personal theism is no more evident in history than personal atheism.
I hope humanity can grow to the place where we can simply accept freedom of spirituality, for lack of a better word.
Religion is guilty of repession of this human right.

Krumple;153446 wrote:

Atheists are not heartless or apathetic to helping those who could use help. I know there are some atheists who hold a level of discrimination and dislike for what ever reason, but it is wrong to think all of them are.

You are right, the issue is a very volatile one and raises many misunderstandings and defensive feelings.
I have no problem at all with anyones personal belief, and I hope I never justify my own by devaluing someone elses. Although this happens a lot.
I do think that these kind of discussions can be helpful in achieving this goal, at least for you and I anyway. Smile

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Quote:
Originally Posted by north

NO

the religious only believe in Humanity , as second to god

for me god should be second to Humanity

Quote:

Not second,
BECAUSE of,
totally different.

explain

0 Replies

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;153362 wrote:

Athiests do exist, that's their problem.

Hello Sun, they cause problems for us all. It could be said that they in their misunderstanding of God, is what created erroneous theist thought. Yea, they cause problems for everyone. That's what we are here for to help each other solve those problems.

William

1 Reply

@wayne,

wayne;153365 wrote:

It's been said that there are no athiests in foxholes, but I don't know if this is true.

Hehe, seems to actually hold a grain of truth.

0 Replies

@William,

William;153509 wrote:

Hello Sun, they cause problems for us all. It could be said that they in their misunderstanding of God, is what created erroneous theist thought. Yea, they cause problems for everyone. That's what we are here for to help each other solve those problems.

William

I say just the opposite. I see theists causing more problems than any atheist has ever.

By hating drug use, they have forced governments to ban drug sales which not only created more evil but a black market allowing people who shouldn't really have a lot of money at their disposal but it gives them plenty of outlet for more violence. This would not have happened if drug sales were not banned.

By hating prostitution, they have forced governments into banning prostitution and that has only created more evil than it has solved. Prostitutes are forced to go under the radar leaving themselves unprotected and victimized. If it were legal there would be establishments where women would be safer and protected.

The only misunderstanding here is that theists believe something that which they have never experienced, to exist. They have absolutely no basis for their belief yet they believe it to be absolute. This is no different than a person who sees an illusion and thinks the illusion is real.

0 Replies

@wayne,

wayne;153436 wrote:

This is all pretty new, good ideas it appears, i'm a bit concerned that their motivations seem to be anti-religious rather than humanistic like they are claiming.

I wonder how atheists find each other, this is the first group i've seen.
Let's see if it lasts, I hope it does, but I also worry about the anti religion aspect. If they can simply do good things without attacking religion, it would be great.

The link goes to a list of charities, not a single group as you imply.

Yes, atheist charities are pretty new, not many existed before the 20th century. I just wanted to point out that Atheist Centre of India is huge and has been around since 1948.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is also huge and is probably the only organization looking for a cure for malaria. They have spent billions in Africa.

There are thousands of atheist run charities but only a few use the word atheist in their titles for several reasons. Some people will not donate to atheist charities. Others will not accept help from them. Atheist charities also seek to protect themselves from terrorist attacks and harassment.

If individuals suffer from being recognized as atheists (job discrimination, harassment, vandalism, and abuse) in first world countries it seems like it would be wise to conceal an atheist identity in a charity. Their aim is to help people and being "out" as atheists would hinder that.

Think about the bibles and electronic bibles sent to Haiti instead of food or medical supplies or the Christian charities providing relief efforts in Haiti that refuse to help non-Christians before asserting atheist charities, unlike religious charities, would have an ulterior motive.

1 Reply

Athiests do not exist?

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