Civil Disobedience under Mahatma Gandhi

For those of you who don't know who Mahatma Ghandi was, then look at this.

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Gandhi never truely broke the law, however, he was imprisoned many times for acts of civil disobedience. His philosophy was to never use violence, but use his wit and wisdom. He made the British look like jerks, especially through the "Amritar Massacre" event. Children were murdered, men and women beaten. They didn't fight back. Infact, they lined up to get beat down in some instances.

Do you think Gandhi's ways of Civil disobedience leave no room for dignity? How about pride? Were they effective? Discuss.

Oh, well than I guess Gandhi did violate the law. But only with such things as sedition, and... Well, I don't know what else. Do you think Gandhi's way of disobedience was effective in bringing independence to India and Pakistan?

It was only effective because the English allowed it to be, as Kennethamy remarked. .

And Gandhi knew he was dealing with the British. Of course, he advised the Jews and the British to surrender, and then practice civil disobedience against the Nazis! Whatta guy!

The sucess of civil disobedience in acheiving your political goals requires a careful analysis of your opponent. It can only suceed against countries who are violating their own moral and ethical precepts and even then may not suceed. It is probably most sucessful against various representative democracies with a long history of supporting fundamental human rights and a record of respect for human life and human dignity. (i.e. not Nazi Germany).
There is some truth to Gandhi's assertion that violence justifies more violence and that even groups with legitimate goals by engaging in terrorism do not advance their cause.

So the Jews and the British should have taken Gandhi's sage and carefully analytic analysis of their circumstances, and civilly disobeyed the Nazis. Is that what you are saying?

I think the bolded is a gramatical error, unless I'm reading it wrong.

Well, Prothero did just state that Gandhi's ways were most effective to British imperialism, for they have a better reputation, obviously, than the Nazi's. It may not have been human nature that differentiated the British and the Nazi forces, but the country's history and reputation.

So the Jews and the British should have taken Gandhi's sage and carefully analytic analysis of their circumstances, and civilly disobeyed the Nazis. Is that what you are saying?

Emphatically NO, that is not what I am saying, intended to say or did say. Quite the opposite, Nazi Germany was precisely the type of state which civil disobediance would likely not be effective against (there was no respect for human life, human dignity or human rights). Most partisan resistance to the Nazis was targeted at military targets and military personel (i.e. it was not terrorism). It was the Nazi's who engaged in terrorist policies (one Nazi is killed twenty villagers are picked randomly and shot). Terrorism usually fails to win the hearts, minds and devotion of the targeted population. Civil disobedience has a history of success in selected circumstances America's civil rights, the British in India, arguably South Africa.
Gandhi was devoted to non violence as a religious principle not as a political or as a pragmatic principle.

So, then, Gandhi was an idiot for advising the Jews and the British to give up an practice civil disobedience against the Nazis. Right. Because it was idiotic to expect civil disobedience to work against the Nazis. Isn't that right? If it was not as a pragmatic or a political principle, then why did he advise the Jews and British to do that?

Given a choice, tyrants prefer civil disobedience over violent revolution.

So, then, Gandhi was an idiot for advising the Jews and the British to give up an practice civil disobedience against the Nazis. Right. Because it was idiotic to expect civil disobedience to work against the Nazis. Isn't that right? If it was not as a pragmatic or a political principle, then why did he advise the Jews and British to do that?

I generally object to such characterizations of people (he was an idiot, he was evil). I do not judge people in that fashion. You can judge individual acts of people or individual ideas which people put forward but I find any individual too complex for me to render such judgements on that person as a whole.

In my view Gandhi was clearly not (an idiot) . His advice to the Jews and the British in their situation I would judge as misguided although well intentioned.
As I clearly stated for Gandhi non violence was a transcendent religious principle ("there are many causes for which I am willing to die, but there is no cause for which I am willing to kill"). Gandhi was a great but not a perfect man.(perfection is not a human trait).

Of course, under most cases. But not all.



Put yourselves in the shoes of Ghandi. You're an Indian political leader who gained independence from Britain, through acts of non-violence. That's a big goal to achieve for one person especially. I would try to apply it to every day life situations if I had such faith in it. Obviously, the Nazi's turned out to be a little different than the British, but like most philosophical questions, I believe that the answer is situational.

"Misguided" eh? I suppose anyone else would have been called an idiot. But because it was Gandhi it is "misguided". Fine. As you like it.

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The Nazis were "a little different from the British"? How little? This isn't a philosophical question. The question is what kind of advice is it to advise that civil resistance be used against the Nazis. The answer is, idiotic. What the motive was is arguable. But Gandhi did not like either the British or the Jews.

Gandhi's not an idiot: the evidence is India and Pakistan.

That's evidence? I would have thought that if anythng, that would be evidence that Gandhi was an idiot.

"Misguided" eh? I suppose anyone else would have been called an idiot. But because it was Gandhi it is "misguided". Fine. As you like it..