Socialism (Moved from Grapes of Wrath)

Let's not name call. EmperorNero really wasn't trying to insult you. Useful idiot is a phrase adopted by the KGB to describe people who could be used to further the Soviet agenda either without knowing at all, or without realizing the full implications of the Soviet system. If you go to the other thread, I posted a bunch of links to videos on the second page or so. The one is an interview with an ex-KGB officer who defected. He uses the term and that's where Nero got it. You should watch the video. Hopefully, it will show you how the collectivists operate and make you as disgusted as I was; if we can't change your mind though, consider it an instructional video for your revolution. (As Nero said though, if you want to survive your revolution, make sure you don't know much or play too great a role)

I think socialism can be very beneficial. For me in a nutshell the different between socialsim and capitalism is that socialism stands for a decent, slightly above average life for most people, but no more, no less. and capitalism is more risky of a system that you can succeed very well but also fail easily in.

Ultimately, socialism is a reaction to the excesses of capitalism to return to the laborer the full fruits of his labor. This is the utmost in economic justice, and anything less than this optimal is slavery.

It's more that I don't understand it. I think I agree with you, I just wondered what that statement implies.

Many would say that this is the basis of capitalism, not to mention that a life with no risk is just not possible unless the nation is rich from export.

Well, the U.S. also used to practice isolationism until World War I (and then tried it until WWII). But instead of slowing down technological advancement, it was spread to much of the rest of the world. Some bad, and some good. Socialism is rather isolationist at heart, because it is more concerned with the people of the country, rather than other countries.

The reason i say this is because in a capitalist society, the economy more or less depends and the people and to be honest the people don't always make the right decisions

Sorry but i'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Because profit from capital can be explained by the forbearance of satisfaction.

All right, I get time preference. Since the value he creates is slippery to pinpoint, what is it that determines the fair wage of the worker?
(Both fair to the laborer and the factory owner.)

Very briefly, only the worker can truly calculate whether his wage is fair or not.

I agree. The problem is that "the rich company owners" through their influence in politics can create a situation where some of the population is "in poverty" and hence the laborer is forced to accept a low wage for lack of alternative.

Exactly.

There is a great deal of libertarian (both capitalist and socialist) that deals with the manner in which government intervention has long been a corporatist (note: corporatism was Mussolini's preferred term for fascism) movement that stagnates social mobility.

Basically the political and economic elite appoint themselves as shepherds to the masses.

So we are stuck with an eternal pendulum swinging fourth and back between laborer exploitation and untenable overpaying.

Great. Instead of banding together to abolish class warfare, the masses fight for greater government control, supposedly to strengthen their side in the class warfare.
All the while the big guy is forced to fight for suppressing wages in the class struggle. Which is his short-term gain, but dooms us all long-term.

I am firmly convinced that while propaganda spewers may win short-term battles, the inherent mutual benefit of a market society will win out in the end simply because of the memetics of good ideas.

A free market economy with socialist safeguards is a formula for success in my opinion.