Arguments for and against the belief in God

@north,

north wrote:

if you back into Ancient Hisory , god is not a belief , but real

Says who?

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

north wrote:
if you back into Ancient Hisory , god is not a belief , but real
Says who?

Sumer

it is all written down

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

No matter how much one talks, no 100% answer can be determined

http://www.spreaker.com/user/solace015/ep_32_religion_pt_1

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@north,

Ah-hahahahahahahahahaha . . .

What a putz . . .

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Quote:

Arguments for and against the belief in God

For: You have someone to blame for all your misfortune in life.

Against: You have someone to blame for all your misfortune in life.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Arguments for and against the belief in God

For: You have someone to blame for all your misfortune in life.

Against: You have someone to blame for all your misfortune in life.

I blame myself any time anything goes wrong in my life. I guess I must be god. 8)

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Blaming alone is presumptuous on itself, but blaming yourself is just pridely presumptuous...anyway I sympathise with the idea that linearity serves its purposes now and then ! Wink

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Blaming alone is presumptuous on itself, but blaming yourself is just pridely presumptuous...anyway I sympathise with the idea that linearity serves its purposes now and then !

Okay, perhaps blame is too strong of a word to use. I guess what I mean to say is that generally when something goes wrong, I probably could have done something different or better or something I failed to do correctly to avoid the current situation. Why blame others for your problems when in fact you more than likely had the biggest role in the problem? Now I'm not saying all cases are like this, because there are times when you play a little part and become a victim of some event.

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@Krumple,

I agree with you generally speaking of course although what I meant is that blame is the shortest algorithm to not have a good explanation on what indeed happened...plus also the argument that you playing a major role in events is not anyway justification for taking blame unless your action was consciously contrary to your best judgement by the time you took a resolution to action...normally that is not the case.

...Blame feeds more an emotion of comprehension then comprehension itself...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I agree with you generally speaking of course although what I meant is that blame is the shortest algorithm to not have a good explanation on what indeed happened...plus also the argument that you playing a major role in events is not anyway justification for taking blame unless your action was consciously contrary to your best judgement by the time you took a resolution to action...normally that is not the case.

...Blame feeds more an emotion of comprehension then comprehension itself...

Well I see your point.

But would a person who does not recognize that they played a huge part in what resulted in current problem being worse than a person who realizes they played a role?

I think realzing or being aware of how much you play a part in your own problems is the first step in helping reduce future similar outcomes. Don't you think? But a person who never realizes this, could repeatedly create the same problems for themselves and on top of that blame everyone else for why they continue to happen?

I think this is referred to as personal growth. I could be mistaken.

Since we are social beings, I don't think everyone is always 100% to blame for every problem but in some cases it could be 99%. I think this is at least fair if not still problematic itself.

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@Krumple,

I think there is a choice involved. When something bad happens, either take responsibility and grow from it, or blame others and keep telling yourself that you did everything right. Pride is often the motivatior for the latter choice, and those who cannot let of their pride often tend to be rather unimpressive people with a very inflated opinion of themselves. After too long like this one starts living a lie, and anyone who threatens to expose that lie is avoided. (For instance, someone who who suffers from this kind of misapprehension, and who thinks of themselves as an accomplished chess player will not want to play with someone they think might beat them, as that would ruin their own opinion about themselves.)

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I think there is a choice involved. When something bad happens, either take responsibility and grow from it, or blame others and keep telling yourself that you did everything right. Pride is often the motivatior for the latter choice, and those who cannot let of their pride often tend to be rather unimpressive people with a very inflated opinion of themselves. After too long like this one starts living a lie, and anyone who threatens to expose that lie is avoided. (For instance, someone who who suffers from this kind of misapprehension, and who thinks of themselves as an accomplished chess player will not want to play with someone they think might beat them, as that would ruin their own opinion about themselves.)

That and it is not always to put yourself in your own scrutizied light. It is easy to forget that you are holding the camera pointed the other direction. No one likes to admit they are wrong or mess up. Well maybe a handful are really good at it but I think at the same time you can be over critical and blame yourself too much. Life is a two way road, people interact with us and we them and the problems clash between those meetings. If you can see yourself or be self critical then I think you are on the right road but even though it is easy to say, I think it is incredibly difficult to practice.

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@Krumple,

Just a small remark:
...my opinion on this regard is not particularly about blaming others as I see it blaming yourself falls exactly in the very same trap...I actually agrees with what you said partially or up to a point, that is, I accept that we should take responsibility as far as recognizing "we" are mostly the predominant causal efficient factor of our actions and we can and should learn from it obviously as progress is build from there...but my point was rather against something far more subtle in the process of judging our actions and relates to moral responsibility which I am not so keen to accept as most of our actions are done upon our best judgment at a given time independently of such judgement being correct or adequate or not...that is a far messier subject to go about...Blame does not equal responsibility which is rather a far more neutral categorization to hold on to...of course from there we could speculate on evolutionary usefulness of blame as an emotion that keeps memory upon our past mistakes on its sharpest potential...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

(above edited)

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

but my point was rather against something far more subtle in the process of judging our actions and relates to moral responsibility which I am not so keen to accept as most of our actions are done upon our best judgment at a given time independently of such judgement being correct or adequate or not...that is a far messier subject to go about...

You have me intrigued but I am not sure exactly what you are saying. What the consequences are of this. Could you explain further or exand on this. Because as it currently sits, I don't think I fully understand what you are saying here. You have my attention.

It almost seems as though you are saying that if a problem arises as if there is no real need to acknowledge the input because the problem would have been there regardless. Perhaps I am getting it wrong, but I think it is because you need to explain more or further, perhaps give an hypothetical example to illistrate your concept better?

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@Krumple,

What I mean is that while I believe in mistakes I don't believe in kilt or blame...as emotions directed to the ego kilt or blame to my view serve the purpose of keeping memory sharp in order to prevent an easy forgetfulness which would come with the degree of abstraction on taking a less personnel emotive approach upon what we do regarding what degree of choice we really had at the time we took action...we do mistakes is true but mostly we do it precisely because we didn't knew better.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

please re -read the 1 post again as I edited it with crucial information (personnel speculative opinion) to the questions you posed regarding the evolutionary usefulness of blame as a psychological trait of our mind...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

...the same argument could be done against the idea of Good and Bad as moral place holders and replace them with the neutral stance of positive and negative actions...

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

we do mistakes is true but mostly we do it precisely because we didn't knew better.

I agree, however; I think it is not always the case. Sometimes we are aware that we are about to do something wrong, yet we continue anyways. The reward sometimes is more tempting than the crime or it's potential punishment. Sometimes we are aware we shouldn't act. I think the desire for happiness and contentment is too strong in the fact of guilt or conviction.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Again the idea can be succinctly expressed in the following:

Causal efficient responsibility does not equate to moral responsibility because moral responsibility requires more then determining the causal efficient agent...it requires awareness of consequences on such agent which mostly has a linear output on that regard...further, even if awareness is present it remains to be proven that awareness is a sufficient condition for choice...(...again the problem of free will, but lets not indulge on that endless path... Wink

)

1 Reply

Arguments for and against the belief in God

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