Consciousness is a Biological Problem

can it be as simple as 'consciousness is the sum of all experience'???

i really think we should have kielicious decide...! i know i am now thoroughly confused.

One of the great sources of confusion for me are the various interpretations and experiments involving quantum physics. It keeps my mind very active and constantly changing, which is the way I like it. Albeit, thankfully, it doesn't make me ill as it did many of the early quantum physicists.

quantifying and clarifying concepts is not pretentious

for example, the vague idea of "yin" tells us nothing about why people get altitude sickness at high elevations

the modern scientific concepts of how the air becomes thin at high altitudes because there's less pressure, how the blood carries oxygen, how the brain uses so much of that oxygen, and how the brain (and muscles and so on) are ultimately deprived of oxygen from this environment and perform poorly explain it

"yin" on the other hand doesn't do diddly for that, or anything else

rich I don't use fancy words for their own sake. you do. I prefer things to be simple and really the only reason I use fancy words and concepts is because they have a higher explanatory or predictive power than their alternatives

If you wish to clarify, then use simple words. I never use the word qi unless I am trying to explain a concept to someone who wishes to understand the Chinese metaphysical view of life. I am not trying to confuse people or show off. I like to keep things very simple.

Absolutely does, but from a different perspective and jargon.

Making things complicated does not necessarily make it better. Occam's razor.

For you nothing. For me, it has kept be healthy for the last 30 years. No pharmaceuticals and no doctor visits. However, I do practice yoga and Tai Chi, as well as eat well and do self massage (Chinese Tuina), to improve my energy (qi), blood (yin) and breathing (prana). It is a simple matter of knowledge of simple concepts.

OK. I will use energy and blood. You use any fancy words or simple words you want to use. It doesn't matter to me

explaining things precisely and clearly is not a mark of a mysterious scientific priesthood.

have you never taken antibiotics? gotten vaccinations? what's the TCM or TIM approach to eradicating polio or smallpox?

answer my questions please

As I have said, during the last 30 years, I have taken:

1) No antibiotics

2) No pharmaceutical drugs of any kind

3) I have not been to see any allopathic physician at any time, and have not had to.

4) I have had minor health problems usually related to some diet habits that I have taken care of by myself or through Chinese Tuina massage techniques

there is a part of us that IS aware of more than the part of us that is taking part in this discussion. so there is in fact besides consciousness or awareness a something that is conscious or aware. isnt there? hmm...

my thoughts originally had centered around the idea of sensory information being received by consciousness-but this is only a name i give to some part of the brain. and as rich said, there is the danger of our defining consciousness in such a way that there is no need to discuss it because the way we define it becomes purely biological.

so in other words, i would ask bright noon regarding your definition "the sum of all experience of sensation or thought"....would perception be more accurate than sensation? for instance, there may be some sensation that goes unnoticed for whatever reason-being drunk or whatever. then i have to ask why mention senses at all? is consciousness the sum of all experience and thought? experience is very subjective...maybe that is what we are looking for? and i also began wondering: when we think, arent we experiencing our thought?

EDIT: richrf, I just noticed that you posted that 'the sum of all experience' is acceptable to you? Shall I take that as a vote? Salima, same question to you. Do you vote for that? If so, I do as well. That makes three!

but you're older than 30 years

so did you take antibiotics or vaccinations before that?

I mean do you at least have measles, mumps and rubella vaccinations?

if not, don't come near me, it's well known that TCM doesn't fix any of that ****

China Vows to Eradicate Measles by 2012 -- china.org.cn

but you're older than 30 years

so did you take antibiotics or vaccinations before that?

I mean do you at least have measles, mumps and rubella vaccinations?

if not, don't come near me, it's well known that TCM doesn't fix any of that ****

China Vows to Eradicate Measles by 2012 -- china.org.cn

When I was young they didn't have that many vaccinations (thank goodness) and the physicians were a little more careful of what they were injecting into new borns. But when I was young I did now and then have some allopathic drugs, most of which made me very ill. Because of this, over time, I have learned how to take better care of myself.

China, is now ruled by a totalitarian, materialistic driven culture and society which is focused on making money and growing an economy. There are reasons for this but they are going to have to deal with the issues that manifest from these ways of looking at things.

China's rivers right now are a cesspool of chemicals

Do you want an iPod or would you rather have clean rivers to drink from

There are unintended consequences for everything

but aren't you glad measles mumps and rubella are a non-issue in the West these days

let the record show that I defeated rich

Kielicious: I respect what you said more than the original thread. The thinking there seems more rational to me.

As for me, I think there is much too much categorical thinking ('Either -- or') in we human beings. We cherish safety in our beliefs. Putting things in vaults and guarding the magic keys we feel we have something no one can steal from us. The same thinking is abundantly obvious in all the rhetoric about mind and brain and the connection here. I see some black and white thinking here where there are no solid proofs and no solid, easy to get at, understanding on the subject. Science is too often looked upon as a God. It has become a religion, replete with all of its own 'high priests' whose feet we bow down and worship. Human beings tend to make 'everything' a religion, because they see in it, this 'safety' and 'understanding' where in fact, there is no real, understanding. No human mind has the capacity to answer the question as to how the mind and brain are connected. Having said that, neuroscientists cannot be discredited. They've uncovered some tremendous things. Suffice it to say, the mind and the brain are connected. Just how they are connected is another matter entirely. The human brain is much too complex for us to ever uncover all of its secrets. That knowledge exists only in the Mind of God. Now, what the hell is the Mind of God? Don't ask me ... I surely don't know. If I did, I would be God. But sadly, I'm not. And if I were to brave an answer ... I would only be running to the safety of categorical, either or thinking. And I refuse to do that. That sort of thinking, I believe, led to Hitler's 'Mein Kamph.' Now how the hell did we get from the mind and body connection to that monster?

and have you learned anything at all young man? Or do you think you know it all and have nothing more to learn

The only thing defeated here is your effort to prove yourself. Sorry for the shock to your ego

many readers of this thread can easily see who is the foolish youngster and who are the minds of great thought and patience

Let the record show by reading this thread that you biologists could not answer the real question of mind and gave up trying.

Science is too often looked upon as a God. It has become a religion, replete with all of its own 'high priests' whose feet we bow down and worship.

The human brain is much too complex for us to ever uncover all of its secrets. That knowledge exists only in the Mind of God. Now, what the hell is the Mind of God? Don't ask me ... I surely don't know

That sort of thinking, I believe, led to Hitler's 'Mein Kamph.' Now how the hell did we get from the mind and body connection to that monster?

simple, Hitler thought he knew it all too!