Out of body experiences

I have had several what you may call OBEs actually...though they did not randomly occur while I was awake and conscious as it seems yours did. Mine have all happened at the stage of consciousness which is between awake and sleep--either upon falling asleep, or upon waking. I have also had many instances of sleep paralysis, which seems to be a state where it is possible to will yourself into an OBE.

I know what you are talking about with the "birds-eye view". It is not like a dream at all, but your surroundings are exactly like they would be if you were totally awake and conscious normally. I've had the experience of a floating perspective, whereby I could view my own body lying below where it was I was looking from, and everything else in the room appeared normal. I've also experienced a feeling of having two bodies--simultaneously feeling my physical body lying on a couch or bed, while also feeling some other body step outside. It's very strange.

If you want my opinion on these, as I have experienced many, it is that I am not really sure. I have concluded that either

1) This is just an example of the power of the human brain, and in this state between sleep and being completely awake (though I "think" normally, I am not conscious) there must be some effect, similar to lucid dreaming, where the mind has the power to create its own very real, imagined reality. Maybe sleep hormones have something to do with this also. It is not like a dream, but different.

2) Perhaps there is something mystical/otherworldly at work here. Many things I have read about the so-called "astral plane", which is written about by the Yogis, and other supposedly higher states of human existence or planes, seem to be a very good description of my experience. The experience also feels so real, that part of me thinks it is more than tricks of the mind, and further verifies other experiences I have had that cause me to question my notion of reality.

It sounds like yours just spontaneously happened though, while you were awake and functioning normally...this is very odd. You should go into more detail. Any time that you are awake and then just suddenly collapse to the floor, you should see a doctor to make sure there isn't something wrong.

How do you know you weren't dreaming?
(haha i know cliche question, but just had too:P)
Descartes would say you cannot be so sure your not dreaming right now!

sorry bit late replying
^ ^the question i gave was to MITech
when he said "I fail to see how obe has anything to do with lucid dreaming because I was not dreaming at all at the time it occured."

Hmm, interesting. Actually, my father had many of these experiences and wrote about them, in which I'm trying to get his writings from my grandmother right now. I'm not having much luck.

He described his experiences happening similar to Pangloss. In such a way that the experience would come during sleep but not all the way asleep. He described it as he could literally leave his body with a cord attached and could see and describe everything to a tee. He would travel as far as he wanted.

From these experiences, he had drawn out what he had seen on one of these experiences and what he had drawn out was three temples on the moon. There was a lady in another country who had also drawn out here experiences and it was later discovered that these drawings were nearly identical of these three temples.

In his experiences he first had them on accident and before long he could actually control the times when he had them. He would pray before sleep that the white light of Christ keep his body safe during his journeys and would not perform this OBE without the white light surrounding his body. While having them he describe that if there were a loud noise or any disturbance he would be snapped back into his body.

At one time he was working with some professors and archeologists that were seeking out the Lost Dutchman's Gold buried somewhere in the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. He had actually had an OBE and discovered 3 large stones placed in a way that they formed somewhat of a triangle and there was a small opening where you could actually crawl in between these stones which formed a small cave. He described to them that at the bottom of one of the stones, (described the location) facing down towards the ground on the boulders curve there was a hoof print from one of the mules and this was supposedly the place to identify where the treasure was buried. I do know they physically went out to the site and found the boulders and just as he had described there was and hoof print at the bottom as he had described. Not sure what happened afterwards but I had heard that at that time based on archaeological findings and calculations it was expensive and risky to dig and based on earth movement it would have been deep in the ground. Besides, it wasn't verified completely that there was a mine of gold at that time. Needless to say, shortly after this my father was murdered, (not necessarily for that finding).

Anyway, he wrote about many of these experiences and I'm trying to get my hands on these. His experiences of OBE included seeing and describing and being in the homes of family members that he'd never seen before. He described that he had tried to open doors but could not grab the handle... almost ghostly.

I wish I knew more about this and had more to offer as far as information but do not. Hopefully someday I will acquire the writings he wrote about his Out of Body Experiences.

Hi Justin,

Sorry to hear about your father. The "cord" you mention that he was attached to his body with is also frequently noted in Yogic writings of the astral world; that you can travel the astral plane while in a human body, though attached by this cord, which links your astral body to the physical.

The writings of the astral world also frequently describe a vibrating of energy which takes place in the process of leaving your physical body to traverse the astral plane. This is what convinced me of some of the truth to these writings, because during my OBEs, there is a very distinct energy/vibrating that occurs at the time of leaving the body, and even an accompanying sound. A few times during instances of sleep paralysis, I was able to willingly leave my body and experience the OBE of my own will. The energetic vibrating I triggered willingly, and thus experienced the OBE. I wonder if you can remember whether or not your father mentioned something like this occurring in his experiences.

I never really got too far with my OBEs--I remember being able to go through walls and other objects if I so chose, but never really left my house. The experience was too frightening, and fear seems to be the thing that holds people back from the full experience. This is the one way it seemed different than lucid dreaming. In lucid dreams, you are aware that you are in the dream world, and there is nothing to fear...you are lucid and dreaming. With OBEs, there is also the same lucidity, but it seems that you are somewhere other than the world of dreams...between the physical and the dream, which might trigger the fear that accompanies this experience.

I have also had some pretty amazing lucid dreams, which have convinced me of the unknown and powerful faculties of the mind.

You brought up astral which he wrote about as well. He wrote about it in poetry and otherwise. I really have to track down this stuff because I know one book he was in the process of writing was very lengthy and of course was never finished. He writes about astral world in much of his poetry. I'll dig into this further but much of what you have mentioned about these experiences was similar to that of my fathers. I do know that his experiences at first were scary for him and I believe he once almost was trapped outside of his body and this was also described in his writings. The chord I believe was connected to his belly button and he had described this in detail. He could also pass through walls and doors but was unable to get the attention of the people and unable to physically move something or turn a knob.

Very interesting. I'll do my best to acquire his writings on this with specific regards to his experiences.

Take a look at this. YouTube - Out-of-Body Experience

The belly button similarity is kinda funny.

But ofcourse this is no joke, and I wish I could experience OBE's. This tells me that people experience these much the same way, so perhaps its a change in actuality, and that consciousness itself is the actuality being changed (by the state of the mind of course). But this is crazy.

However negative this sounds though, I think OBE's in respect to the above validity, would be delusions, or tangents of reality shifts. So the mind does not change reality the way it should normally, but perhaps due to a chemical inbalance, or whatever the case, reality does not go from the mostly objective environment to the subjective environment of dreams. Instead the tangent is like a superposition of the two.

This makes me wonder if a delusion can really be specified as such when there is no objectiv mindset to convey an objective reality. So when the mind undergoes a change, the reality changes. And since reality is portrayed by the mind and is just a single everchanging tangent of infinitely many tangents of actuality, a delusion is only relative to other's reality.

We cannot say that we ourselves are deluded unless it is in relation to another's mind, because with two minds and therefore two tangents (two realities), there will be a marginal difference in the projection of the tangents from the actuality.

So a tangent drawing away from actuality will always have the influence of actuality(the objectiveness), which would be why we experience things much the same way. But in a state of a more pure subjectiveness, where actuality has less potential due to modes of sensory input being turned off or something like that(at the bridge of dreaming), the tangent of reality has less of the actuality influencing it.

I had never known that many people could have OBE's and thought all this was nonsense, especially when my grandma said she had one. I thought these were just hallucinations. And then she says "that's why I believe in God, and you should to, and that it will find you someday".

Maybe I'm not mature enough to understand yet, but it really ticks me off at the naive suggestion to believe in God because of a divine experience. (And ofcourse a divine experience is relative to normal experiences, so one could still call it normal). What's delusional is believing that some separate being controlled your consciousness to have the OBE, because it lacks virtue of spirit, making the suggestion of God in religion very paradoxical to me.

The first time this happened to me, I had the overwhelming sense of some entity/presence being with me, and felt that he/she/it was trying to show me something, or was going to take me somewhere. At the time, I simply "knew" this was the case. Of course in later reflection on these instances, I too have thought that it probably was simply a "delusion", as a dream is, as these experiences do happen while I am not yet fully awake.

Anything that someone experiences is part of "reality", for the person experiencing it. As you said, a delusion is something which is judged to be so based on the measure of others' experiences. These out of body experiences seem to be quite a common delusion, as many people have them and have written about them. They could very well just be a different form of dream, less commonly experienced, and nothing more. Whether or not OBEs are basically the same thing as a dream, dreams are a form of alternate "reality". Is this an externally created reality though, as we believe "real life" to be, or is this simply created within the individual's mind?

I tend to believe that my OBEs are merely very unique, interesting dreams, and not the work of some unknown external reality. Of course this is after a good amount of time has passed since I had the most powerful of these experiences...if you had asked me shortly after it happened, I might have said something different.

MITech's experience sounds like it also occurred while he was not fully conscious or awake...for whatever reason he blacked out, and during that time, had the OBE before waking back up again. But he needs to elaborate more on what happened. As for that video, I stopped watching it when the guy said he was "injected with a very powerful muscle relaxant". Someone who is under the influence of drugs at the time something like this happened isn't a very good source...I know there are also certain drugs out there that are supposed to trigger OBEs, and people use them for that purpose.

Is this something I should see a psychiatrist for?

If that was the impression I was giving you then allow me to say that no I see no reason to, its just too common from the impression I got here. What is unique about it is you were awake, and it's just a bit odd, so if you are seeing one or go to the doctor from time to time, then I would just mention it.

Don't make it sound like you need drugs though, if there are such things for this situation.

If you are having blackouts you should see a doctor soon. An OBE in itself though isn't something to be worried about...

May I ask what blackouts are exactly just in case.

Well it sounds like you suddenly lost consciousness, thus falling to the floor. This is something you should consult a doctor about. Probably you are fine, but they might want to do a cat scan or something to make sure.

I had a dream today which felt so real when i woke up i had to think whether it had happened or not and when i felt sure it hadnt i tried so hard to go back to sleep
haha it wasnt even anything mega exciting i was on a bus talking and just felt happy and a bit confused but the whole thing that was being said... Damn dreams

Lucid dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hello! I've suffered/experienced these for the last 6 or 7 years. As you go on, the realisation of the fact that you're dreaming becomes easier to grasp and therefore, the 'trip'/experience easier to control and/or manipulate.

I [and wikipedia] calls them 'Lucid dreams' - bi-products of sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations. They're caused by the body entering R.E.M [Rapid eye movement - the stage in-which we dream] too early or something... the way I think about it, is being physically tired but not mentally, and you're mind can be racing as you fall asleep.

I find I often am aware of when I'm going to have one too.

So far as I know; there's nothing worth seeing a Psychiatrist about. there's plenty of literature online about helping you deal with this sort of stuff.

Ali

I don't think this is at all related to lucid dreaming though. I think that this is more so apart of a depersonalization experience.

Depersonalization Experience:

Persistent or recurrent experiences of feeling detached from, and as if one is an outside observer of, one's mental processes or body (e.g., feeling like one is in a dream).
During the depersonalization experience, reality testing remains intact.

Thats what I think it is.

Okay, well reading your initial post, that was my first thought as *exactly* what you'd described has been commonly attributed to Lucid dreaming, and it *exactly* what my own experience of what I call Lucid dreaming.

OOBEs on the other hand, have relevance in all cultures, and usually are of very similar nature [I hate to reference a film, but check out 'Flatliners' minus the ethical school trip at the end it's a great film - with a great soundtrack!] IMHO without knowing more about what happened to you and what makes it different/out of the ordinary from common lucid dreaming then it's difficult to form any sort of opinion.

Maybe you're looking too far into a common phenomenon [is that an oxymoron?]

Ali

By the way welcome to the forum ali.

These obes could also be what psychiatrists call depersonalization experiences.


Psych Central: Depersonalization Disorder Symptoms

< thankyou, and yes, agreed with 'depersonalization [of] experiences'