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Solicitations for help for whoever has time for someone who wants to care.

 
 
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 09:28 am
Solicitations for Help from whoever is so gracious as to peruse through my grammatically flawed summary.

I have two conclusions of the way I have been feeling. To begin with, I know what I feel doesn't matter... (because most of my state of mind is apathetic, unless I agree with the "idea", but, In My Humble Opinion sometimes people do not agree, and sometimes those people make a huge influence on your quality of life.) Ok, that's an opinion, let me elaborate. Assuming that us as individuals care about the quality of life and goals mankind sets for ourselves and themselves, we automatically feel influenced by these goals either by feeling negative emotions by the decisions others make around us if we do not agree with them, or by just ignoring these ideas in general. Either way your still making a conscious decision to be affected by them. Please press on even if you dont agree with the above statement.

So to speculate my experiences and what they mean seems to be a waste of time because I seem to becoming more aware that even if I think man's ultimate goal is to realize his full potential in life, and to be content with his choice, so many people choose to strive for mediocrity yet be unsatisfied with what life they live. (I am not saying you can't strive for mediocrity and not be satisfied.) (Also my definition of mediocrity is, doing something that pays the bills, gives you healthcare and takes care of your family, but, you can't speak your mind at this job and you hate going to work every single day.) (I also know that we cannot go into MOST workplaces spewing any kind of garb or propaganda we want, but most of this society is very hypocritical of this concept. I mean there are groups that talk about politics, religion, and what their favorite TV show is at work when it is not even relevant to anything and only creates opinions that can hurt the person who does not join the organization of office chatter; either emotionally or professionally. I guess no matter how I choose to live, it still has to remain within the standards of whoever has direct control over what he/she decides is the status quo and ultimately; is in control of my destiny so to speak, ie: job promotions if they dont like that i am not a certain political affiliate.



I am not trying to rant. These are ideas that are very perplexing. I usually can think of a simple solution for problems. Please continue on with the following reiterations. Please offer some suggestions to co-exist with you all and not lose the ability to converse with the occasional critical thinker.



Simple tasks are labor intensive. Getting along with people that judge without understanding distracts me greatly.

Please allow me to give my thoughts on some anticipated answers.
‎‎
You as the Reader:

Ok, first I think that you are somewhere between the sociopath and brilliant thinker (closer towards brilliant). In fact that's one of the reasons I love talking to you....you're the one person I know that can make me think differently about the ways of life, that's just who you are..it's what makes you unique...and if people you work with, or your friends can't appreciate another view on life then that's their problem and not yours.

‎‎

My Response:

Well thanks, but I expected an answer like that, essentially you're saying; don't worry about what other people think... AND, I can do that outside of work, but it's hard to pretend that you care about something when you know it doesn't matter.... That is called lying.

You as the ‎‎Reader:

ha-ha...then don't care...so what the person sitting in the cubicle beside you thinks you're crazy...let him...trust me half the people I work think I'm a little out there...I get into arguments all the time with the people I work with because of the way I think about things...

‎‎My Response:

People respond with, well "you got to play the game", but to me, ONE OF THE WORST THINGS you can do in life is lying to your fellow man. It creates false realties and just hurts people. It makes people think they can accomplish things in ways that are not real to me.

You as the ‎‎Reader:



‎‎My Response:
I don't know

‎‎You as the Reader:

Ok best advice I can give to this very vague scenario is; 1..dont give your 2 cents unless they ask....and if they do ask for them, I'm sure the people know you well enough to know your opinion might not always be what they want.

‎‎My Response:
Cool... I'm happy, just not when I have to deal with other people's hypocrisy.


That's the short story

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Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 10:46 am
@Mr Zebra,
For one thing; slow down... Too many platitudes or this or that choices does not make for conversation...

Second, I am from Michigan and no matter how bad it gets you can chalk it up to the weather...

Third; don't expect other people to motivate you, and give you some reason to care...If you want to have a fart contest you are going to have to eat some beans...

Fourth; it is true that we have to go along to get along, and that is true of any relationship, any form of relationship, as your office is, and all employment is...If you do not mix well with people then work on your skills... When you take an interest in others is when they will begin to take an interest in you, and most people have their own personal rain clouds, and don't need yours... Look at others for their entertainment value if nothin else... Buy a book of jokes and look for some good ones to tell...Try to care, and you might find others caring back, but don't expect it to be easy...If anyone enjoyed the folks at work much, they would cut everyones pay... But realize that the happiest people and the most productive learn to, or natually form alliances with others...

Fifth; even mediocrety is a moving target... Today''s mediocrity may be tomorrow excellence, so you have to be careful...If you want people to perform, pay them... Don't expect anyone to spend their lives in anxiety on short wages, and then, to give a crud... Some times people are able to put shet jobs in perspective and be humane with the humans that matter; like their friends and families...Better that than the other way around where people give all their lives to dead end meaningless jobs and then take out their frustrations on others...Try to care for everyone, but jobs come and go, and people can survive on quite little if they have the love and support of family...You want to be that guy...
0 Replies
 
Mr Zebra
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 01:37 pm
@Mr Zebra,
Ok, thanks for the response. A few questions to clarify what you mean.

Why do you suggest to work on my skills, when it seems fundamentally wrong to bend to other's will to "get along". Is'nt this the groundwork for deceit?

My rain clouds? Where are you coming from with that. I come in, I do my job, I leave. Why do I have to feign interest in co-workers viewpoints. These things are irrelevant to whether or not i can produce an accurate account transaction summary.

Happiest people form alliances? That sounds very devious. Why form alliances when Companies and Corp's are constantly trying to promote tolerance to diversity.

On mediocrity; I am not talking about wanting people to perform better, I am talking about people claiming to be happy, yet still placing judgement and criticizing other people, having nothing better to do. I don't think that is happiness.

I am not on Payroll. I don't expect people to live on short wages and give a crud. Trust me, I live on a short wage. What message are you trying to convey when you say "put a shet job in perspective"?

On getting along; Why do i have to greet everyone who comes through the door when i know they are a selfish person. I am busy attentive to my work. Why do i have to pretend to care when most of the talk is irrelevant to the job i do. I mean if people want to talk among themselves, great. But just because I dont care what kind of vaccuum cleaner deal you got at Sear's, doesn't make me an anti-social jerk. Or does it?

I could careless if people take an interest in me at work. I just dont like it when it influences an opinion that is irrelevant to anyhting performance based and just hurts the person subjected person.

On your blurb of having people care for me. It's nice to have people be concerned for your well-being. But to judge others because you think you know what your talking about does not make much sense to me. FYI: I am not a supervisor.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 04:37 pm
@Mr Zebra,
Quote:

Mr. Zebra;163530 wrote:
Ok, thanks for the response. A few questions to clarify what you mean.

Why do you suggest to work on my skills, when it seems fundamentally wrong to bend to other's will to "get along". Is'nt this the groundwork for deceit?

see below...You are going to take a lot of work...
Quote:
My rain clouds? Where are you coming from with that. I come in, I do my job, I leave. Why do I have to feign interest in co-workers viewpoints. These things are irrelevant to whether or not i can produce an accurate account transaction summary.

Feign it for a while, and you might find people like it and feign back, and in the meantime you will have found a new game to play called: How can I discover what I have in common with this person so we have some better reason to cooperate toward a common goal...



Quote:
Happiest people form alliances? That sounds very devious. Why form alliances when Companies and Corp's are constantly trying to promote tolerance to diversity.
Not devious at all, but certaily intelligent... People do not survive by virtue of being better than others, but by social networking and cooperation; ad f you think you can live without these things Ithink you are wrong...[/SIZE]

Quote:
On mediocrity; I am not talking about wanting people to perform better, I am talking about people claiming to be happy, yet still placing judgement and criticizing other people, having nothing better to do. I don't think that is happiness.
Chickens peck each others butts and an old rooster will hound a young rooster right into hell... Does not sound like much fun to me, but it works for the chickens...In the matter of judgements, it sounds to me like you are as good at it as anyone... Most people actually do have something better to do, like their jobs... But if they cannot compete they find other ways of surviving, like being critical, gossiping, or harshly judgeing their co-workers..If you can beat them no other way, abuse them, label them, amd lie about them... This does not really help much...Even the most talented individual, the best worker and most intelligent can lose his job if he cannot gain the support of his co workers...The boss may have to fire his best because he cannot fire everyone else... [/SIZE]

Quote:
I am not on Payroll. I don't expect people to live on short wages and give a crud. Trust me, I live on a short wage. What message are you trying to convey when you say "put a shet job in perspective"?
One of those muckrake writers of the last century writing about the slaughterhouses of Chicago said Marriage is the curse of the working class...It is because once well married and with children a man or woman has no defense against the indigities of the workplace, and can only shut up and be quieted when injured... Their love and their relationship with their family if it is healthy makes them happy to endure injustice so their children can have better, but because of this the whole working class is sold out...[/SIZE]

Quote:
On getting along; Why do i have to greet everyone who comes through the door when i know they are a selfish person. I am busy attentive to my work. Why do i have to pretend to care when most of the talk is irrelevant to the job i do. I mean if people want to talk among themselves, great. But just because I dont care what kind of vaccuum cleaner deal you got at Sear's, doesn't make me an anti-social jerk. Or does it?

We are all selfish, and all have faults... As with any relationship, and any form of relationship: We all need to survive, and we all need to be recognized...If you think you don't need people and can make it alone, I would like to see you try...
Quote:

I could careless if people take an interest in me at work. I just dont like it when it influences an opinion that is irrelevant to anyhting performance based and just hurts the person subjected person.

On your blurb of having people care for me. It's nice to have people be concerned for your well-being. But to judge others because you think you know what your talking about does not make much sense to me. FYI: I am not a supervisor.


We all have to make a sacrifice of self for our relationships... What do you thnk is wrong with that since it is essential to survival... Taking a dump is destasteful, but after a while you start to look forward to it...
Rwa001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 06:24 pm
@Fido,
I work in a job that requires me to be intensely diplomatic and constantly aware of what I say or what I imply. When I began my studies of philosophy as an undergrad I found myself constantly at ends with what people assume in their daily lives. As I got older (and let's hope wiser) I found that it's best to take a socratic approach when dealing with non philosophers. If someone makes an outrageous political claim or something of that sort, I ask about their reasoning, what assumptions they might be making, that sort of thing. In this way I'm being honest, social, and making them important.

As philosophy majors we have a tendency to speak from authority, but that's a huge mistake when dealing with your average Joe. It pays to be inquisitive, listen to what people are saying. Reserve your judgments though, they certainly don't need to be said. And if you still consider this dishonest, then maybe you should adjust your ideas about morality.

Is it better to be honest and hurt someone or be dishonest and brighten someone's day?

When I get irritated with the people I work with, I just think back to Kierkegaard and the concept of universal suffering. We're all under a rain cloud, unless being honest with someone with provide real benefit, there is no reason to poke holes in their umbrellas.

I also think you might have a misguided view of happiness and mediocrity. You're making a false assumption that you know people aren't happy with what you call mediocrity. Plenty of us want to have a job that pays enough for retirement, a wife we love, and children. That's not mediocre.

If you aren't happy with where you are, then slight your morals (they aren't absolute, afterall), be more social at the water cooler, and get yourself into a position where you can change things.

I'm the Vice President of a non-profit and I love it.
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 07:00 pm
@Mr Zebra,
I think there's selfishness in all of us. Also I personally don't believe in an afterlife, don't think my society is terribly just, am disappointed sometimes at what many other humans spend their money and time on. Of course they probably wonder why I don't pile up possessions and make babies. No easy answer, in my opinion. I do that when I became a happier person, I wanted to kick my past self for wasting all that opportunity, all that health. I'm still health, fortunately, but how many hours did I waste in angst? Who knows maybe yesterday's angst was the entry fee to today's not-too-shabby happiness. In my opinion, certain questions are never answered but only forgotten in fascination with other things. Keats said something about this sort of obliteration. Kafka wrote a parable in the Castle. Oh yeah, I think literature helps. Dostoevsky will make you laugh at everything. But here's that Kafka:
Quote:

BEFORE THE LAW stands a doorkeeper on guard. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country and prays for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot grant admittance at the moment. The man thinks it over and then asks if he will be allowed in later. "It is possible," says the doorkeeper, "but not at the moment." Since the gate stands open, as usual, and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man stoops to peer through the gateway into the interior. Observing that, the doorkeeper laughs and says: "If you are so drawn to it, just try to go in despite my veto. But take note: I am powerful. And I am only the least of the doorkeepers. From hall to hall there is one doorkeeper after another, each more powerful than the last. The third doorkeeper is already so terrible that even I cannot bear to look at him." These are difficulties the man from the country has not expected; the Law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone, but as he now takes a closer look at the doorkeeper in his fur coat, with his big sharp nose and long, thin, black Tartar beard, he decides that it is better to wait until he gets permission to enter. The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at one side of the door. There he sits for days and years. He makes many attempts to be admitted, and wearies the doorkeeper by his importunity. The doorkeeper frequently has little interviews with him, asking him questions about his home and many other things, but the questions are put indifferently, as great lords put them, and always finish with the statement that he cannot be let in yet. The man, who has furnished himself with many things for his journey, sacrifices all he has, however valuable, to bribe the doorkeeper. The doorkeeper accepts everything, but always with the remark: "I am only taking it to keep you from thinking you have omitted anything." During these many years the man fixes his attention almost continuously on the doorkeeper. He forgets the other doorkeepers, and this first one seems to him the sole obstacle preventing access to the Law. He curses his bad luck, in his early years boldly and loudly; later, as he grows old, he only grumbles to himself. He becomes childish, and since in his yearlong contemplation of the doorkeeper he has come to know even the fleas in his fur collar, he begs the fleas as well to help him and to change the doorkeeper's mind. At length his eyesight begins to fail, and he does not know whether the world is really darker or whether his eyes are only deceiving him. Yet in his darkness, he is now aware of a radiance that streams inextinguishably from the gateway of the Law. Now he has not very long to live. Before he dies, all his experiences in these long years gather themselves in his head to one point, a question he has not yet asked the doorkeeper. He waves him nearer, since he can no longer raise his stiffening body. The doorkeeper has to bend low towards him, for the difference in height between them has altered much to the man's disadvantage. "What do you want to know now?" asks the doorkeeper; "you are insatiable." "Everyone strives to reach the Law," says the man, "so how does it happen that for all these many years no one but myself has ever begged for admittance?" The doorkeeper recognizes that the man has reached his end, and to let his failing senses catch the words, roars in his ear: "No one else could ever be admitted here, since this gate was made only for you. I am now going to shut it."
Mr Zebra
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 08:49 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;163646 wrote:
I think there's selfishness in all of us. Also I personally don't believe in an afterlife, don't think my society is terribly just, am disappointed sometimes at what many other humans spend their money and time on. Of course they probably wonder why I don't pile up possessions and make babies. No easy answer, in my opinion. I do that when I became a happier person, I wanted to kick my past self for wasting all that opportunity, all that health. I'm still health, fortunately, but how many hours did I waste in angst? Who knows maybe yesterday's angst was the entry fee to today's not-too-shabby happiness. In my opinion, certain questions are never answered but only forgotten in fascination with other things. Keats said something about this sort of obliteration. Kafka wrote a parable in the Castle. Oh yeah, I think literature helps. Dostoevsky will make you laugh at everything. But here's that Kafka:



Neat story. What do you take from it Reconstructo?
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 02:56 pm
@Mr Zebra,
I can't say exactly.What gives me the willies is when he is told that that particular gate was just for him. He was waiting for others to go through first perhaps, to take the risk. Was there a risk? The man from the country is fixated on the law being accessible at all times to everyone. He won't go it alone. He demands that the Law be what he thinks it should be. This reminds me of the book of Job, where the humans sit around and talk about God, and God finally speaks for himself. Mind you that the book of Job is just a brilliant myth to me, something like this Kafka fragment.
That the door was made just for him reminds me of Kierkegaard. I think we crave the universal, but life is only experienced by particular beings on particular paths. I can claim to have walked through a few doors first, let's say, but none of us are perfect. I think for the most part we rot outside the open door, demanding that others go first or at the same time.

I have read about Kafka and can assure you that he laughed his ass off, that he was writing dark comedy.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:02 pm
@Mr Zebra,
Recon... If you have ever suffered any terrible loss you will see that the urge to curse God and die is very powerful... But, whether or not there is God, we suffer much injustice by the very nature of life, with conflicting interests, ignorance, mental illness and what ever... And while life is a curse, or God as you conceive it, still it is always good to remember what a wonderful adventure it can be, good one day and shet the next, so that every moment lost feeling sorry for yourself about the unfairness of it all is only wasted time you will never have back...The whole scene, of God wagering on a man is a remarkable thing, a total reversal of the average situation, where instead of us having faith in God, it is God having faith in one of us...And still Job was right to put it in God's face...It is not fair, and that, if you believe Jesus, Job's protoge, is not what God does on this earth...What ever ones situation, it is better to deserve better than to enjoy better and deserve worse...
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 01:05 pm
@Fido,
Fido;164056 wrote:
Recon... If you have ever suffered any terrible loss you will see that the urge to curse God and die is very powerful...


I know the feeling, and no doubt various circumstances could bring this feeling back to me. If I lean toward the positive, it's because I want to live it up while I can. I feel "God's" shadow on me, on all of us. Seize what love and positivity one can, is my view. Dwell on the high things. Much of our suffering can be avoided, I think, but certainly not all of it. To love is a risk, and yet also perhaps the deepest aspect of life.

---------- Post added 05-15-2010 at 02:09 PM ----------

Fido;164056 wrote:
every moment lost feeling sorry for yourself about the unfairness of it all is only wasted time you will never have back.

Exactly! And this is why I love the book of Job. Job and the boys sit around applying their human standards of justice to something beyond them, the cruelty and the beauty in the Nature Of Things, and God's retort from the whirlwind is deep.

---------- Post added 05-15-2010 at 02:11 PM ----------

Fido;164056 wrote:
.The whole scene, of God wagering on a man is a remarkable thing, a total reversal of the average situation, where instead of us having faith in God, it is God having faith in one of us...And still Job was right to put it in God's face...It is not fair, and that, if you believe Jesus, Job's protoge, is not what God does on this earth...What ever ones situation, it is better to deserve better than to enjoy better and deserve worse...

Yes, this wager is great. Jung presents man as "God's" morality. Man is moral. God is not. God is a giant brutal baby, who thinks by fits and starts, and I'm thinking of this O.T. in general. A bratty teenaged war -God with pets. Perhaps he represents man's terrible brutal past, what he must leave behind to become rational and just. So Job was right, in human terms, to question the justice of God. This element is also in the book. It's a rich text.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 01:22 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;164666 wrote:
I know the feeling, and no doubt various circumstances could bring this feeling back to me. If I lean toward the positive, it's because I want to live it up while I can. I feel "God's" shadow on me, on all of us. Seize what love and positivity one can, is my view. Dwell on the high things. Much of our suffering can be avoided, I think, but certainly not all of it. To love is a risk, and yet also perhaps the deepest aspect of life.

---------- Post added 05-15-2010 at 02:09 PM ----------


Exactly! And this is why I love the book of Job. Job and the boys sit around applying their human standards of justice to something beyond them, the cruelty and the beauty in the Nature Of Things, and God's retort from the whirlwind is deep.

---------- Post added 05-15-2010 at 02:11 PM ----------


Yes, this wager is great. Jung presents man as "God's" morality. Man is moral. God is not. God is a giant brutal baby, who thinks by fits and starts, and I'm thinking of this O.T. in general. A bratty teenaged war -God with pets. Perhaps he represents man's terrible brutal past, what he must leave behind to become rational and just. So Job was right, in human terms, to question the justice of God. This element is also in the book. It's a rich text.

God; if there were such a being is beyond our understanding... So what if God does not give us justice??? Does that take from us the obligation to make each other whole, and give justice to one and all???...Not as I conceive of the situation... When the rich have and the poor suffer it is not the fault of God, and it is not fate; but it is proof that our social forms are not working as they should, because if they were, then good would result from them...
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 01:37 pm
@Fido,
Fido;164674 wrote:
God; if there were such a being is beyond our understanding... So what if God does not give us justice??? Does that take from us the obligation to make each other whole, and give justice to one and all???...Not as I conceive of the situation... When the rich have and the poor suffer it is not the fault of God, and it is not fate; but it is proof that our social forms are not working as they should, because if they were, then good would result from them...


I agree. That was Jung's point. God represents something primal, terrible..something that humans can and must improve on. We share 98% of our genes with chimpanzees who cannibalize the "children" of other groups. Perhaps the human idea/ideal of justice is a green island in a sea of blood-- and perhaps this sea of blood is "God." Of course one can also relate the God concept to man's higher elements.

If the rich feast, while the poor starve, one might chalk this up to human nature, and then chalk up human nature to the Nature of Things. Even if we think the eagle, for instance, is the product of chance, what is this "chance"? The shape of things does have a certain mystery. Why should Nature be a system of creatures that devour one another? For me, this sort of thing is connect with a concept like God. And if man is a wold to man, I can't see it completely in terms of man's "Free will." If we are selfish, why are we selfish? If one thinks the world is structured causally, then perhaps one can agree that there are certain "settings" that man didn't choose in this system. His own general nature. Of course I agree that man can and should strive toward justice, rationality, etc.
0 Replies
 
 

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