Atheists...

What ever you choose to be, comes from your interpretation of the supposed facts relayed to you..As an agnostic i do not claim to know certain things but other things are very clear.Atheists to me are fundamentalists on so many issues their crusading battles are littered with bodies of the faithful and the doubting atheists..I understand their contempt for certain aspects of religion but the zealots among them are just as dogmatic as any preacher that dares knock on my door..

You can't proof or disprove God exists. That is why people depend on faith. That is why faith and belief in God supersedes any rationalization for the religious person.

The concept of God, as most commonly understood, is largely irrelevant to me.

I see existence as a collection of experiences, observations, interactions, reactions, and unanswered questions. I can relate much more to Spinoza's god than I can to say, the fatherly figure residing in heaven.

This does not generally constitute a disagreement in terms of the substance itself, but rather a personal lack of the need to anthropomophize.

That said, I think man needs religion, ritual, and dogma. The contemporary disintegration of traditional forms of religion have left a vacuum, where new ideologies have sprung up to fill the gaping human need. Atheism, Secular Humanism, Veganism, the Green Movement, Television -- humans will always find something to serve as their grail quest, to satiate the need for crusades, proselytizing, and purpose.

We've seen the results of "classic" religious hegemony over the last few millenia, the good and the bad. Less clear is the future-- how society will change as traditional religions are replaced by new ideologies.

While I certainly appreciate the lack of religious authoritarianism we have in the United States, I am not proud of the infantile licentiousness and increasing dependence on a nanny state that seem to be growing in the absence of traditional religious moral indoctrination.

The beginnings of religion to me seem like more of a judicial system to me, with an omnipotent, omniscient being with the power to condemn and save with a click of its metaphysical fingers. The clergy were the police force, preaching what should be done and punishing the wrongs. The point of this analogy is the replacement of this with the modern judge, jury and executioner archetype. There may well come a day when we can live without religion, but for now it seems the law isn't nearly as effective.

Yo!

Join the resistance to sharia law--refuse to return to the stone age.

International Campaign Against Shari'a Court in Canada

The Sharia court in Toronto is optional. Jews there have long had the option of turning to their own religious courts to handle certain issues; the Sharia court simply grants Muslims the very same right.

Kolbe- the beginning of religion goes back to Earth Mother and Sky God deities. These cults predate the earliest legal codes.

Thomas:)

One people one law, they are either Canadian or they are not.

PAT CONDELL'S GODLESS COMEDY

The above link speaks to the problem.

I believe in Holland now criticism of Islam is against the law--they have frighten the population into submission with death and further death threats. Give a listen before you give your support to this wretched tradition.

Right, and the Sharia court in Canada, just like it's Jewish counterpart, is justified according to the maxim you have given. Remember: the use of these courts is optional. No one is compelled to use these religious courts. Under Canadian law, these religious courts are an acceptable alternative to the traditional Canadian courts.



And this is all entirely irrelevant to the situation in Canada. I'm just as much opposed to religion in government as the next guy: as an American, Jefferson's "wall of separation between church and state" means something to me. But that's exactly the point: the Sharia court in Canada maintains said separation because the court is optional rather than obligatory.

We disagree!! Thomas! Are you in favour of honor killings, the stoning of loose women Thomas?

No, I am not, and Canadian law does not permit such things, either: Canadian Law including the Sharia Court.

Be careful: Sharia is open to interpretation. Fundamentalists interpretations of Sharia law are the ones most popular in the minds of westerners. However, fundamentalist interpretations are not the only interpretations to be found. Perhaps you should do some research before you jump to the wild conclusion that the Canadian Sharia court will issue death warrants with "stoning" as the prescription.

This week in Toronto a father murdered his daughter for not wearing her head coak--I think it is you that needs to get real Thomas. This is a wretched traditon, that treats women like cattle and believes in honor killings. Have you read or listen to either of those links that I supplied?

YouTube - Stop sharia law in Britain

I have seen this video on Youtube and I was surprised it was flagged as the gentleman puts forward his viewpoint in a timely fashion, although the subject matter is a political hotpot. Even though he does have cynical and strict views which could be perceived as Xenophobic, there is a truth of the shocking treatment of women due to the way their society works and the indoctrination they are born into.

Yes, my stomach turns too when I hear of subservient women who are blamed for men' indulgence of their most base instincts, if these men had honour and reason instilled in them then there would be no need to force women to live under the constant fear that they may be 'inciting men to rape them'.

There is not much you can do when a society has backward thinking when it comes to civil rights, but you should be able to voice it in your own free country if these people demand to live this way here.

I was sad to hear of the Toronto father, and I find this another sad example of concepts and ideologies' taken to extremes.

Lararius,

Thank you for your input. Yes it is a hot topic but xenophobic no, quiet the opposite, the dominant phobia in the west has become political correctness and that is what is being exploited. Islam has made it clear to all those whom are not cowed, of its desire for world domination, this is stated most clearly. Personlly I do not see Islamic countries as being models for human rights or even spiritual models, as its sense of respect for others and of compassion seems very much wanting. At any rate they are in no position to teach justice and civility. As Condell stated when Islam shows respect for others, I will show respect for Islam, but then, then, it would not be Islam would it---------off the infidel! Yes Islam, what a delight!!

Thankyou for your kind reply good sir,

Many important points are being raised here! Please forgive any poor English or Grammar on my part but I feel I must go on a little 'Rant' about some of the things that I personally have noted in my travels.

Yes, it is becoming more and more a widespread view that political correctness is being used as an all-too-effective 'weapon' against people. People risk being labeled 'Racist' for the slightest deviation of the official line that has been placed into unwritten law, however it is uncertain exactly which groups these are supposed to be appeasing as the majority of religious or ethnic groups know that they are treated with respect, love to see Christmas decorations and love their host countries.

It is also a sad shame that, in my personal opinion, political correctness has been warped out of all proportions by zealots. I was flown into the U.K to do some work for their NHS health system (Another massive story!) over Christmas, and I had a person brought in for a checkup after having an accident within the warehouse of their workplace.

I heard the patient lamenting to me their circumstance over the 'Winter Issue'. He explained to me that they had received a company memo speaking that no employees were allowed to say 'Merry Christmas' to any of their customers, instead if they said anything at all it should be 'Seasons greetings' and he felt silly as every shop in their high street was gearing up for Christmas, getting decorations and such. It then dawned upon me that no-where in a store (when I went out and about for lunch) had I seen the word 'Christmas' in any of these stores.

I instantly then saw that not only is it the commercialization of the celebration, but it also shows the amount of hypocrisy that is applied. Firms will embrace the ideals of Christmas (Yes CHRISTMAS, the Christian celebration), then renounce the bits that 'inconvenience' them or make them look less 'inclusive'. All of these stores are showing the ideology of wrapping up presents, having Christmas dinners, writing letters to Santa all leading up to the 25th of December - Yet, you are not allowed to call it Christmas.



I have also heard that there is a new 'system' being used, by some authorities, called 'Positive Racism' (the Police forces in Britain have used it too 'to recruit more from ethic minorities'). Now, I am not authority on the English language but the last time I looked up the word 'Racism' there was nothing positive about it!

I was brought up in a loving household where my mother was a practicing Buddhist and my father was a roman catholic, and they got on perfectly when it came to religion, my mother would go to the Temple and pray and have her religious items around the house, and there would be a large crucifix in the hallway on the wall. They allowed showed me both roads and left me to make up my own mind about faith and walk the road I wish. I already hold the opinion that all mainstream religions practice the same ethos of love, respect, understanding and temperance. It would not surprise me if it turned out that these were all just avenues to the same great essence. No decent religion teaches you to go out and kill, lie and cheat. However, regions' which are being high-jacked by hard-line groups with a strange agenda do.

This is why we have different countries and cultures, because people want to live different lives by different rules and ideals. We cannot go to their lands and tell them how to live their lives (not counting situations like mass genocide and such where we ALL have a moral responsibility to intercede and protect the innocent), but if their own people see the lifestyle that they wish to live within our society then they should be given the opportunity to conform to our laws and integrate with us, also bringing with them their heritage and traditions.

It is also why we have a asylum system (No I shall not go into the abuses of that, at this time!), so if lady is happy to walk around head-to-toe in black robes and walk with their chaperone several steps behind their husbands or brothers, then that is their choice and the way they are happy to live, I would speak nothing against them. But if you have a lady who is desperately frustrated with the lack of freedom, expression and education, then I would erge her to move to a less politically hostile environment and give her the chance to live her life as she wishes.

We western countries have worked so hard to reach the point where everyone is treated equally and with respect. It is enough of a shame that until a few decades ago a person of colour was not even allowed to sit where they wanted on a bus or drink from the same fountain. It is bad enough that even our civil rights are under attack, you hear about these hate clerics who seem to be allowed to arrive in your country (Mostly the UK and US) speaking and preaching hate and destruction while trying to hide behind the guise of free speech.

We need to uphold our special values and stop them being bastardized out of all recognition by the corrupt few.

Lararius,

Beautiful, I could not have wished to express it better myself. I find nothing to disgree with.

What is your point? A man committed murder. Did the Sharia Court in Canada condone the action? No.

I've given my arguments; you have ignored them and instead provided irrelevant information. Nothing I can even discuss, there, Boagie. Yes, this murder is a terrible crime - just like all murder. But until you can come up with something related to the Sharia Court in Canada, you have failed to make a relevant point.

Thomas,

I am not going to get into with you Thomas, we have to much history. The posting was more in the line of a public sevice on my part, let people read and let them listen and makeup their own minds.

Right, let's twist reality, present said twisted reality as fact, and then leave the matter alone. Personally, I'd prefer to be honest about the matter.

Thomas

Sharia law in Canada, almost | News | guardian.co.uk

Here is your side of the argument in a nut shell. The only problem with allowing sharia law in Canada is you have a portion of the population subjected and indanger, those are female Muslims. It is true they cannot really deny what is already a reality for the Catholics and the Jews, the greater the shame. Allah is great!!!:eek:

I live in Britian, and I can say that you both have a point. Sharia law, in a very moderate form, can be a useful tool when simply used as a way to ajudicate domestic disputes, but anything further than that is definatly a bad idea. In its most extrem form it means the most hideous abuses- as in saudi arabia, and it has served as the stimulus for dozens of killings in my country. I think that there needs to be some accountability, a new consensus in Britian on Islam- but it needs to come, most importantly, from within our Islamic community. Sharia Law needs to be massivly reformed, and proponents of extreme Islamic views should be extradited- but the aim of this should be the creation of a powerful countermovement to Islam extremists- Britian should become a model of the reform of the Islamic sharia model; not a model of religious hatred and persecution, on either side.