1
   

Atheists...

 
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 03:44 pm
@de budding,
de_budding wrote:
No, but every one who is non-religious is defined by the other religions, notably their rejection of them.
Atheism doesn't require rejection. I'm an atheist because I just don't care.
Teena phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 05:34 pm
@Aedes,
Myself personally, I simply couldn't bring myself to believe, thats all. Anything God related just doesn't make any sense to me at all.. regardless of how I look at it or which way I turn it.

To be honest there were times when I would've much rather believed in a God, but even then it just wasn't happening.
Mephistopheles phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2008 08:33 pm
@Teena phil,
Teena wrote:
Myself personally, I simply couldn't bring myself to believe, thats all. Anything God related just doesn't make any sense to me at all.. regardless of how I look at it or which way I turn it.

To be honest there were times when I would've much rather believed in a God, but even then it just wasn't happening.


I have tried, in the past, to see if I can believe in a God to give my life meaning. That's until I accepted total death, and found it absolutely beautiful in a sad sort of way. I just don't fear death and I feel sorry for people who actually care about dying; they were 'dead' before they were born, so why should they care what happens afterwards?

Anyways, to give in my two pence, I am an atheist because God doesn't exist like Santa doesn't exist or the invisible purple dragon in my garage (my garage also doesn't exist!). I have no need for religious nonsense and spiritual hocus pocus.
0 Replies
 
de budding
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 05:30 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Atheism doesn't require rejection. I'm an atheist because I just don't care.


Well that is neither disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods or following of the doctrine that there is no God or gods. Atheism specifically requires the rejection of the concept of God/s.
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 03:36 pm
@de budding,
de_budding wrote:
Well that is neither disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods
Yes, it IS disbelief. For the same rationale that I don't believe in elves. I default to disbelief until something in the world makes that disbelief untenable. But it's not denial of God, it's just disbelief.

Quote:
Atheism specifically requires the rejection of the concept of God/s.
No, the prefix 'a-' before the suffix 'theism' specifically means absence. If you are asplenic then you lack a spleen. If you atheistic then you lack theism. Nothing about that word requires considered rejection. Buddhists are atheists because their belief system lacks a God concept.
0 Replies
 
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 03:37 pm
@de budding,
The only way that atheism cna be distinguished from theism in its basic nature, is if it does not deny existence of god but rather refuses belief without proof.
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 03:44 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235 wrote:
The only way that atheism cna be distinguished from theism in its basic nature, is if it does not deny existence of god but rather refuses belief without proof.
I disagree, because you're assuming that both theism and atheism are epistemologically monolithic. Many theists believe that they have proof of God, and believe that evidence of God is required for belief. Their evidence won't necessarily meet scientific standards, but it is sufficient for them.

I'd argue that the only way atheists can be distinguished from theists is that theists believe in the existence / divinity / intervention of a god, and atheists do not. There are a million ways one can come to either of these basic beliefs.
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 05:57 pm
@Aedes,
And what of those who believe that they have proof for the nonexitence of god and hold staunchly to it? It seems that these 'atheists' are of the same camp as theists who believe in a god and hold staunchly to it. both sides are deluding themselfs from the skeptical standpoint. Those who arrive to atheism through skepticism seem to me to be of a fundamentally different nature than those who believe in the nonexistence of god, for the recognize that the possibility is open. Are these people not atheists or are they what atheists should be? Many atheistic arguments mirror theistic arguments in their logical structure but lead to opposite ends thus the structure is fallacious. The issue is about faith and nonfaith. Faithful atheists are of a different nature than skeptical atheists and actually, though they are diametrically opposed idealogically, have more in common with theists due to the structure of their beliefs.
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2008 06:42 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235 wrote:
And what of those who believe that they have proof for the nonexitence of god and hold staunchly to it? It seems that these 'atheists' are of the same camp as theists who believe in a god and hold staunchly to it.
What of them? A subgroup of atheists does not allow you to generalize about the rest of them.
0 Replies
 
midas77
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2008 07:31 pm
@de budding,
de_budding wrote:
. Atheism specifically requires the rejection of the concept of God/s.


And why does atheism requires a rejection of the concept of GOD? Like Aedes, i also don't care. God or no God its all the same to me. The concept of God is irrelevant.

If you belief in God, it does not matter with me. Just don't use the concept of God to convince me, it will not work.

If you don't believe in God, just don't flaunt it. It will not add any meaning to the discussion.

Lets just remove God in the equation.
Holiday20310401
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jun, 2008 09:45 pm
@midas77,
Does anybody here see any potential that a divine being with a separate entity has on the universe as far as we know it?! Ofcourse not. If so, plz point it out, what a revelation it would be indeed:rolleyes:.
I mean, what is the moral consensus for God's existence relying upon 'faith'
I guess I'm not tuned with most people I know who see false potential as having meaning, like blind assertion to irrationale reasoning.
I don't know what I am b'c there seems to be mixed definitions for atheism. I just think that God's meanings have truth and should be carried out and define what humanity should strive for, but do not require a separate entity or symbol to call them real, that only adds to the immorality that has been caused.
0 Replies
 
SantaMonica1369
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2008 03:39 pm
@Zetetic11235,
If you're completely nonaligned in your belief, not believing in a God or any other higher deity, its completely within itself, and only that. By that I mean that we are not a religion, therefore we are nothing in the subject. We aren't a catagory because we don't need to be. There is nothing that defines us. You may say our lack of belief does, but that's nothing. It doesn't count. Its like a flat out 0 or infinity, the colors white or black, a baseline. There is no need for throwing a complicated deffinition on it or trying to put it in a catagory, because it has no specific points that define it. More, a lack of specific points. The athiests that reject God, I can see being catagorized. But those that don't give a hoot either way? Why catagorize them?
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 05:42 am
@SantaMonica1369,
SantaMonica1369 wrote:
If you're completely nonaligned in your belief, not believing in a God or any other higher deity, its completely within itself, and only that. By that I mean that we are not a religion, therefore we are nothing in the subject. We aren't a catagory because we don't need to be. There is nothing that defines us. You may say our lack of belief does, but that's nothing. It doesn't count. Its like a flat out 0 or infinity, the colors white or black, a baseline. There is no need for throwing a complicated deffinition on it or trying to put it in a catagory, because it has no specific points that define it. More, a lack of specific points. The athiests that reject God, I can see being catagorized. But those that don't give a hoot either way? Why catagorize them?


Yea, no one lies to be pigeonholed, particularly with some of the negative overtones words tend to carry.

The way I look at it is this: Words help us communicate. If someone were to ask (for example) "Hey, how does Bill look at religion?" it's much easier to say "He's agnostic" rather than "Well, he's nothing on the subject. He's not completely non-aligned on the belief, not believing in god or any higher deity. He isn't a category because he doesn't need to be. It's like a 'zero'".

Just has to do with defintions helping us communicate. That's all, but I share your feelings on being categorized per say (especially when a definition doesn't quite fit".

... hoping this helps.
SantaMonica1369
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 06:29 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
Yea, no one lies to be pigeonholed, particularly with some of the negative overtones words tend to carry.

The way I look at it is this: Words help us communicate. If someone were to ask (for example) "Hey, how does Bill look at religion?" it's much easier to say "He's agnostic" rather than "Well, he's nothing on the subject. He's not completely non-aligned on the belief, not believing in god or any higher deity. He isn't a category because he doesn't need to be. It's like a 'zero'".

Just has to do with defintions helping us communicate. That's all, but I share your feelings on being categorized per say (especially when a definition doesn't quite fit".

... hoping this helps.


Yeah, that does help, and that is true. Although that then just leads me to wonder, why do we have to bother debating these things at all? How much religious info doesn't need to be said unless we're asked to elaborate?
0 Replies
 
OntheWindowStand
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 01:32 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
I love it! Simple, honest questions that have simple, honest answers. I hope not to offend any honest believers out there, but my answer is straightforward and from the heart.

For me, there's just no reason to believe something so silly - one would think in the 3rd millennium that we'd be past such dumbness. Humans have such capacity for love, sharing, fellowship and discovery. As long as we hold to ancient myths, the longer we'll stay divided and at arms length to our brothers and sisters. Beliefs in god have the potential for giving great comfort to the individual, but they hurt our species in numerous ways.

Nice question. I hope my response is well-received.

Everyone has a god saying you believe there isnt one means you think you are your own god
SantaMonica1369
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 07:17 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
No, it says you're independent of religious beliefs.
OntheWindowStand
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 09:00 pm
@SantaMonica1369,
SantaMonica1369 wrote:
No, it says you're independent of religious beliefs.

LOL atheism is a religion
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 09:50 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
atheism is a religion
Hardly... it's a lack of belief that can be arrived at many different ways. In and of itself atheism is not predictive of ANY other affirmative or negative belief; atheism does not have a type of "practice"; atheism does not have a doctrine; and atheism does not have a tradition. Atheism isn't a 'system' of beliefs -- it's a specific lack of belief in a specific concept, and one cannot generalize further based on that alone.
OntheWindowStand
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 10:41 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Hardly... it's a lack of belief that can be arrived at many different ways. In and of itself atheism is not predictive of ANY other affirmative or negative belief; atheism does not have a type of "practice"; atheism does not have a doctrine; and atheism does not have a tradition. Atheism isn't a 'system' of beliefs -- it's a specific lack of belief in a specific concept, and one cannot generalize further based on that alone.
\

It takes faith to be a atheist and there is more to it then lack of belief of god. Followers of atheism often try to convert people like other religions it hates other religions like other religions do. It holds many of the same characteristics of a religion "set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." In the quotes is the definition of religion. Atheism concerns the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. It also has a moral code. It states no god which still falls under the second point of the definition as well. This is because ones disbelief in any god has identical effect on someone that might believe in a number of other "gods". And that effect is that it changes there way of living, thinking and their view on life.
PursuitOfReality
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 07:07 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
\

It takes faith to be a atheist and there is more to it then lack of belief of god. Followers of atheism often try to convert people like other religions it hates other religions like other religions do. It holds many of the same characteristics of a religion "set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." In the quotes is the definition of religion. Atheism concerns the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. It also has a moral code. It states no god which still falls under the second point of the definition as well. This is because ones disbelief in any god has identical effect on someone that might believe in a number of other "gods". And that effect is that it changes there way of living, thinking and their view on life.


Huh, how does it take more faith? This is impossible for all atheists, because not all atheist try to convert people. I know I don't care if you believe in a god or not. I do care if your "moral" codes leaks into my life by rule of law or other forced means. I'm against all moral codes btw! Hasty generalizations make you look very foolish. I didn't read your entire diatribe(not worth my time), so I probably missed other nonsense you spewed.

Now onto the OP, I feel like I became an atheist instinctively. I was unable to believe in the stories my mother taught me from the Bible and she had to tell me they were just moral stories. I did believe in that god, but I asked a lot of questions when I was young. I must of been agnostic Christian early on. I became an atheist at 12 because nothing worked and the Bible never made sense to me. Prayer never worked, god never talked to me, and I never had a spiritual experience as the religious describe the phenomena.
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Atheists...
  3. » Page 3
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/02/2024 at 08:55:45