Atheists...

@Khethil,

Quote:

That's the cool thing about kids. Nine year olds, if you read Piaget, are in the concrete operational stage of cognitive development. They think very pragmatically, which is why when they get together they spend more time on the rules than the game. So kids that age haven't really developed very abstract reasoning (though they're at the upper end of the concrete operational stage). Thus, they can ask extremely practical questions that can undermine all this abstract stuff we pontificate about.

And the abstract reasoning will help them understand spiritual literature for what it is - ah, the value of good teachers!

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

And the abstract reasoning will help them understand spiritual literature for what it is...

Hehe, i.e. they take it very literally when they are young and are thus easily indoctrinated. Then when they develop abstract reasoning and understand the concept of transcendency, they rationalize these indoctrinated ideas into some kind of metaphysical truth system. Interesting how the belief grows with the person -- and if the person grows up all the way into Aquinas then that childlike concrete belief can fill volumes of carefully reasoned text.

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@de budding,

Now days to me it seems that almost every one in the world lives in the world of "iff". For all our action we feel that their needs to be a reason, a data that can support our actions, ideas and way of life! But the truth is that their are some categories that do not lie in the the empirical world! Their are no reason why emotion are so real! Why a cry of another human make u sad, why certain chemical reaction does what it does! God is a feeling, a reason for some people to do so and so, go IS A METAPHOR for good action (that is it meant to be!)
I really dont care whether their is a god or not! To me what is important that we all do good and live a good life, meaning that help others as much as we POSSIBLY can!
Religious books are like set of good stories that we can learn from. Like all stories some are rubbish and some are fascinating!
So at the end it comes down to u! Believe me now days people do what ever they want and the ****s that some of us do even got satan saying," man do I need to retire and let this guys replace me?! "

We human have the ability to make the purest thing in the world so dirty and the most dirty thing in the world a form of purity!

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@ltdaleadergt,

Quote:

Hehe, i.e. they take it very literally when they are young and are thus easily indoctrinated. Then when they develop abstract reasoning and understand the concept of transcendency, they rationalize these indoctrinated ideas into some kind of metaphysical truth system. Interesting how the belief grows with the person -- and if the person grows up all the way into Aquinas then that childlike concrete belief can fill volumes of carefully reasoned text.

Thus the value of a good teacher. Such a figure will be able to guide the child away from taking metaphysics too seriously. Not to mention rooting out some of the sillier doctrines proclaimed by some spiritual leaders - like the idea that the Noah flood story is literally true.

The good teacher will help the child understand the Noah story, so that the story has value and meaning without being historically accurate.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Thus the value of a good teacher. Such a figure will be able to guide the child away from taking metaphysics too seriously.

A 9 year old can't learn metaphysics to begin with. Give a 9 year old a metaphysical lesson and they'll never get the meta part. Metaphysics is inherently abstract and inherently rooted in language and logical statements. Even things like arithmetic are concrete to a 9 year old. To say that 4x5=20 is a recitation for a 9 year old, not some kind of statement about universals.

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@Aedes,

Quote:

A 9 year old can't learn metaphysics to begin with.

Unless the 9 year old is JS Mill;)

But you're right, metaphysics is beyond their capability at such a young age.

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@de Silentio,

de Silentio wrote:

So religion in and of itself keeps us divided as a race? Religion in and of itself isn't damaging, in fact, many religions (and churches for that matter) preach that we should unite, rather those who follow a certain religion do or not is not necessarily a product of that religion. I find that the Human desire to be better than their neighbor is more damaging than religion. Religion is just an easy target to point a finger at.

Those who find religious beliefs silly and dumb can be just as damaging to human relations as any religion.

Although I don't believe religion is silly and dumb, I do think it divides us...If there are four different religions, each telling their believers to unite, what does that give us? If there were only one religion, your arguement would be much more valid...But if we have many "united" groups, they will compete by human nature. Religion opens the door for people to desire to be better then their neighbor. Even the religions that don't discriminate against others are putting a label on their people, and in a way, alienating them.

1 Reply

@SantaMonica1369,

:)Why must a person be draged into being termed an atheist, with all the connotations the righteous tend to attitibute to THE GODLESS. What would we be just left alone. I myself do not have outrageous supernatural beliefs, I simply do not believe theirs [ the faithful]. This is the real affiction that believers bring upon their brothers and sister, they want you to feel guilty for thinking independently. Did you ever watch, "The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers",--that old movie, I think they have done a remake of it. Don't you think the stimulus for that movie was the Christian born again movement? They are coming for you. its for the best, its futile to resist.:rolleyes:

The chosen people---what balls, and the Christians believe it-----both hands now, can you find your own ass!!:p

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

:)Why must a person be draged into being termed an atheist, with all the connotations the righteous tend to attitibute to THE GODLESS. What would we be just left alone. I myself do not have outrageous supernatural beliefs, I simply do not believe theirs [ the faithful]. This is the real affiction that believers bring upon their brothers and sister, they want you to feel guilty for thinking independently. Did you ever watch, "The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers",--that old movie, I think they have done a remake of it. Don't you think the stimulus for that movie was the Christian born again movement? They are coming for you. its for the best, its futile to resist.:rolleyes:

The chosen people---what balls, and the Christians believe it-----both hands now, can you find your own ass!!:p

Thanks for putting that up, its a really good point. Independent thought, to me, seems like it should be going hand in hand with religion.
But, well, its obviously not.

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

:)Why must a person be draged into being termed an atheist, with all the connotations the righteous tend to attribute to THE GODLESS. What would we be just left alone. I myself do not have outrageous supernatural beliefs, I simply do not believe theirs [ the faithful]. This is the real affiction that believers bring upon their brothers and sister, they want you to feel guilty for thinking independently. Did you ever watch, "The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers",--that old movie, I think they have done a remake of it. Don't you think the stimulus for that movie was the Christian born again movement? They are coming for you. its for the best, its futile to resist.:rolleyes:

The chosen people---what balls, and the Christians believe it-----both hands now, can you find your own ass!!:p

I hear you Boagie! But isn't atheism just another belief system? when I really think about it, it is not a specification of religion to have a God, so being atheistic (non-god) doesn't make you non-religious or non-belief- systemic.

The latter (non-belief-systemic) would be an anti-belief system stance, but wouldn't an anti-belief system still be a belief system which believes belief systems are wrong?

How do you qualify atheism as different from religion/belief systems?

Dan.

1 Reply

@de budding,

de budding, Smile

"How do you qualify atheism as different from religion/belief systems?"

It is simply non-committment to the beliefs of others, it is not an activity. If someone claims to be a Christian does that mean Christianity is a systems of disbelief of every other belief system in the world. Christians are only slightly less atheistic than myself, Christians reject the entirety of all possiable gods accept one, I reject them all, the difference, one god. May Zeus be with you!!

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@boagie,

But what of this 'non-committment to the beliefs of others' why do you believe this? isn't this a belief system?

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@de budding,

de_budding wrote:

But what of this 'non-committment to the beliefs of others' why do you believe this? isn't this a belief system?

de budding, Smile

Ask yourself, is everyone one not a Christian then defined by Christianity, in the negative of course, its ridiculous. Do I then have a non-belief system for every mythology in the world, I don't even know every mythology in the world. One evaluates from what one knows across the board, if something does not seem likely or even possiable it is not accepted, its called the process of the understanding.

1 Reply

@boagie,

Quote:

is everyone one not a Christian then defined by Christianity

No, but every one who is non-religious is defined by the other religions, notably their rejection of them.

or

We can speculate that you were born and never introduced to any other beliefs and developed yours independently of others believes (and you just happened to develop- independently of any other belief systems, an atheistic belief system.) Now your beliefs truly are independent of other religions and definitely not defined by Christianity or any other system but, they are still beliefs and you, albeit on your own, rationalized them into a system which explains why you don't' believe in a God/s

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@de budding,

de_budding wrote:

No, but every one who is non-religious is defined by the other religions, notably their rejection of them.

We can speculate that you were born and never introduced to any other beliefs and developed yours independently of others believes (and you just happened to develop- independently of any other belief systems, an atheistic belief system.) Now your beliefs truly are independent of other religions and definitely not defined by Christianity or any other system but, they are still beliefs and you, albeit on your own, rationalized them into a system which explains why you don't' believe in a God/s

de budding, Smile

Does that fact the these belief systems are group activities, while on a independent level a man's belief and disbeliefs are of his own creation and a property of his consciousness make any sense to you? Sorry, I just cannot take your premise seriously.

1 Reply

@boagie,

In that case your not an atheist your a boagiest surely? All I am implying is that no matter what we believe it is a belief system like all religions.

'Why must a person be dragged into being termed an atheist' because they have/share/use the atheistic belief system.

'all the connotations the righteous tend to attribute to THE GODLESS' that's life I don't listen to idiots.

'What would we be just left alone' Depends on your belief system, if it's 100% original it is Boagieism, if it is based on a system of no God it is probably atheistic and so on.

'I myself do not have outrageous supernatural beliefs, I simply do not believe theirs' If it is part of your belief system to highlight and deny Christians you are anti-Christian, if you highlight and deny all religion your anti-religious.

I am stating nothing radical or of-the-wall, just that, no matter what you believe, you believe something and have a belief- if you high light and then deny belief altogether that is still a belief system (anti-believist), just one that dictates we should not believe.

Dan

1 Reply

@de budding,

This is the kind of philosophy that I think is stupid. Who cares to be right about whether somebody has a definition right? That doesn't change who the person is.

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@Holiday20310401,

That's alright Stanley, it has been enlightening.

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@boagie,

Yeah what doesn't lighten your cigar boagie? lol just kidding with ya

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@Holiday20310401,

Ill add my 2 cents
The new testament is interesting and very helpfull to some when taken as philosophic suggestion and looked at in the abstract. My mother has said to me very profound insights relating to the teaching of jesus, many of which affirm my own beliefs. I have not heard similar insights, however, and she came into christianity late (late fourties:)) so she is not typical and is in fact very skeptical. Since I have experienced good done by christianity, I cannot empirically refute that it can bring good ends, and remain convinced that it is the narrow scope and selfishness of most of its practitioners which bastardizes the philosophy of jesus, a most selfless philosophy.

I do not subscribe to the base and silly things that lie at the bible's(or any other text) surface , but rather listen to those who have had deep revelations in the words of that in which they believe, for it is a medium through which philosophy can move.

Personally, I can only accept god as that which forever evades human conciousness, that which we approach as we solve our problems and slide around with logical inquiry but cannot answer. If anything is god within the physical universe, it is the old god, the god of the gaps the god of the unkown. With each step we take towards him another few he takes back.

1 Reply

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