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What Is Your Problem With Anarchy?

 
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 10:47 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
The world has never seen true democracy. The world will never see democracy until power structured through networks rather than through hierarchical structures. Anarchy is the demon to all hierarchical power structures so it always ends up with a bad reputation. Considering all societies eventually fail, maybe the critical factor is the fact that they had some sort of hierarchy of authority. Democracy is an integral feature of anarchy, because it has to be assumed that decisions would be made in some way.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 11:33 am
@Theaetetus,
The more this thread goes on the more confused i become..Anarchy is a form of democracy but structured voting or elections dont develop..the strong how do they fair in this unexplored system?.how are the weak protected? I have had no real assurances just proposals.Sorry there are too many worries for me to vote for it...Ide like to see a country be given the chance for a limited period but dont ask me , ill just watch.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 12:41 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
The more this thread goes on the more confused i become..Anarchy is a form of democracy but structured voting or elections dont develop..the strong how do they fair in this unexplored system?.how are the weak protected? I have had no real assurances just proposals.Sorry there are too many worries for me to vote for it...Ide like to see a country be given the chance for a limited period but dont ask me , ill just watch.



There are no assurances except those which you make for yourself.

This really isn't all that confusing.

There is no system of control. Democracy will most definately take place because we will still live in groups. Decisions which effect everyone will be made and everyone will be involved in making them.

The strong and weak will be slightly different because different classifications will exist. The strong will be those with the most to offer while the weak are those without skills to lend. There is no protection other than that which is provided by yourself and those who care for you.

In other words, it pays to make friends.
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 12:43 pm
@Icon,
Icon wrote:

In other words, it pays to make friends.


And choose you neighbors wisely.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:06 pm
@Theaetetus,
I appreciate all those who dream of anarchy are those who wish for something better.I have no problem with that .My concern !is it naive to think it can work? I can imaging small communities happy in their unit supporting each other and never wanting to impose their will on others , it would be my idyllic world . Oh if i had the power of this supposed God how id make things so much better .Then the cold light of reality wakes me from my dreaming and the multitude needs government needs control.
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:09 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
The more this thread goes on the more confused i become..Anarchy is a form of democracy but structured voting or elections dont develop..the strong how do they fair in this unexplored system?.how are the weak protected? I have had no real assurances just proposals.Sorry there are too many worries for me to vote for it...Ide like to see a country be given the chance for a limited period but dont ask me , ill just watch.


I don't know. I tend to look at society organically and holistically. You have to understand how a person fits into the society as a whole and the way his place has changed as society has changed.

Simply applying the plight of the "weak" in our modern western system to an anarchistic system doesn't work.
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:13 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
I appreciate all those who dream of anarchy are those who wish for something better.I have no problem with that .My concern !is it naive to think it can work? I can imaging small communities happy in their unit supporting each other and never wanting to impose their will on others , it would be my idyllic world . Oh if i had the power of this supposed God how id make things so much better .Then the cold light of reality wakes me from my dreaming and the multitude needs government needs control.


Instead, people remain addicted to the things they hate, and consume what they don't really need and didn't really want to begin with. If what really mattered became the focus of people's lives, then maybe people could quit being pawns in a hierarchical power structure that supports some other people's best interest, rather than their own.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:15 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
I don't know. I tend to look at society organically and holistically. You have to understand how a person fits into the society as a whole and the way his place has changed as society has changed.

Simply applying the plight of the "weak" in our modern western system to an anarchistic system doesn't work.
Develop your explanation or i am lost..The weak do or dont survive..remember i am a revolutionary communist.
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:39 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
Instead, people remain addicted to the things they hate, and consume what they don't really need and didn't really want to begin with. If what really mattered became the focus of people's lives, then maybe people could quit being pawns in a hierarchical power structure that supports some other people's best interest, rather than their own.


Exactly. The problem is that people focus on the change in structure, when it is the change in attitude that is essential.

Any social structure and norm is pretty acceptable if the underlying attitude of self-worth is attained. The goal is to allow people to build upon their own values, and this is only possible if it is fairly universally held that this is the only acceptable moral position of a person.
0 Replies
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:40 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Develop your explanation or i am lost..The weak do or dont survive..remember i am a revolutionary communist.


Doesn't that make you an anarchist as well?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:43 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
Doesn't that make you an anarchist as well?
No i dont think so ..it is for the common good and that means the lowest are as important as the best.We strive for equality in everything and our goal is uniformity.
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:49 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
I don't know if this is just me, but I see a direct relationship between democracy, communism, and anarchy. Some problems and investments are too important to ignore so communal properties kick in a necessary, as decided by the people of the community. Otherwise communism will forever be doomed to the realm of authoritarian power and the necessity for coercive measures to control behavior.
Icon
 
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Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:51 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
I don't know if this is just me, but I see a direct relationship between democracy, communism, and anarchy. Some problems and investments are too important to ignore so communal properties kick in a necessary, as decided by the people of the community. Otherwise communism will forever be doomed to the realm of authoritarian power and the necessity for coercive measures to control behavior.

Communism doesn't work in a government system but would be ideal in anarchy
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:56 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
I don't know if this is just me, but I see a direct relationship between democracy, communism, and anarchy. Some problems and investments are too important to ignore so communal properties kick in a necessary, as decided by the people of the community. Otherwise communism will forever be doomed to the realm of authoritarian power and the necessity for coercive measures to control behavior.
Communism within democratic control has restrictions if it has not got restrictions it becomes a dictatorship like the abuses russia imposed on its people.I am a democratic communist who will fight for freedom...Oh dear to many glasses ofthe redstuff sorry..
0 Replies
 
Kolbe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 02:44 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Surely pure self-actualisation can never be truly achieved, as some peoples goals are affected by others. However that would then become their own personal self actualisation. Hmmm.

I suppose through social integration instead of the seperation into specific selves can promote democracy instead of anarchy, as with enough reasoning and discussion personal goals can be altered to accomodate for the goals of the group. So even if there was anarchy the way the OP describes things, then wouldn't democracy surely and eventually evolve?
0 Replies
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 02:53 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
No i dont think so ..it is for the common good and that means the lowest are as important as the best.We strive for equality in everything and our goal is uniformity.


I vomited in my mouth a little bit there. You have quite literally expressed the exact opposite of every moral and political stance I have.

Your political goals render us lower than the slavery of domesticated animals. It lowers us even further than the inanimate existence of stones.

Uniformity is a fate worse than death. Uniformity is nonexistence.

Are you familiar with the short story "Harrison Bergeron"?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 03:02 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
I vomited in my mouth a little bit there. You have quite literally expressed the exact opposite of every moral and political stance I have.

Your political goals render us lower than the slavery of domesticated animals. It lowers us even further than the inanimate existence of stones.

Uniformity is a fate worse than death. Uniformity is nonexistence.

Are you familiar with the short story "Harrison Bergeron"?
Please dont vomit it gives you heart burn for days....Uniformity ahh the classless societies dream or nightmmare..UNIFORMITY..what does it mean to you ? for me it means equal opportunity equal ability through education the great levelers..it does not mean the individual characteristics merge in to one slob of humanity we can still afford our rebels our nutters.
nicodemus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 08:38 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
No, that is not uniformity, that is a tabula rosa, or in plain english, a fair starting line. What people do with themselves is their problem. Much like the housing crisis 1.5 years ago, why should those who were a step ahead, or more intelligent have to help the weak/stupid along. I goes along with the whole communist ideals, seeking to level the playing field in the middle of the game does nothing but degrade everyone but the lowest common denominator. Would you sacrifice the best and brightest of the human race for your "common good" when in fact your common good is what we are trying to leave in our past?
nicodemus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 08:41 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
in other news,

people think they can amalgamate anarchy and democracy, but as far as true anarchy is concerned, democracy is still tyranny. Many anarchists in the US are outraged by our government and the actions of our directly elected officials (excluding the president) and by infrastructure i mean a system of communication such as the postal service, the internet, or a system of transportation, or, unless the entire world goes anarchaic, a system of defence from our "brethren"
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2009 03:57 am
@nicodemus,
nicodemus wrote:
No, that is not uniformity, that is a tabula rosa, or in plain english, a fair starting line. What people do with themselves is their problem. Much like the housing crisis 1.5 years ago, why should those who were a step ahead, or more intelligent have to help the weak/stupid along. I goes along with the whole communist ideals, seeking to level the playing field in the middle of the game does nothing but degrade everyone but the lowest common denominator. Would you sacrifice the best and brightest of the human race for your "common good" when in fact your common good is what we are trying to leave in our past?
Thats because your fear is stronger than your humanity.In my society one would not want to have that bit more than his neighbour. Thats whats wrong with society it craves ever more. Growth is the devil. Its not highest reaching down its the lowest attaining its full potential.Remember we could all be the same with the same background the same chances in life. Do you believe its just genes that makes an individual succeed ? I judge society by its proposals and anarchy is not for me thankyou.
0 Replies
 
 

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