24
   

The cult of AA

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 05:49 am
@DrewDad,
Bingo. FM obliquely referred to the same thing when he named Tom Cruise. I once worked in a bar, and was there with some friends when this creep showed up who had been haunted the place, and he started in with some people we knew, only now he tipped his hand, and made it clear that he was recruiting for Scientology. I challenged him, and that was tense enough, but then i started in on L. Ron Hubbard, and the guy almost went postal. He came at me with a beer glass which he put to my throat. Within a second or two it was obvious that this was histrionics on his part, and i knocked the beer glass from his hand and had him against the wall by the throat when several of my acquaintance pulled me off the guy.

The local Scientologists began to picket the bar and harrass the patrons. The owner got a peace bond against them, and then made some kind of settlement in which they paid his legal costs. They also started following me around, but i was comfortable with ducking down alleys on the way home, and they pretty quickly lost interest in following me too closely.

They are definitely a cult, and they will stop at almost nothing. I don't say that AA is as bad, but i've gotten the same kind of hostility from AA people for challenging their cult mindset.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 05:55 am
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

That is the most offensive line of utter bullshit I have ever heard from anyone. And it is a common thought.


Might be. But it's the official definition for addiction as an illness - here, and in most other countries.

Of course, you can call that bullshit.
But it works and worked here and elsewhere.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 06:00 am
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:


I guess being addicted is all fun and games. That the addict is enjoying himself and his high. Sorry. But there comes a point in your addiction that it isnt about being happy and high anymore. Its about avoiding being sick, avoiding shakes, hallucinations, blood in your vomit, or urine. Its about not being able to hold down food, not being able to SEE physical things, not being able to hold a conversation, drinking / drugging to avoid the intense amout of pain withdrawing brings.

People who have never been addicted like that dont know addiction.


Well, I've been addicted. (To use the term correctly: I am an addict.)

And I'm sure that I know and have known more addicts than most here during the time of my job as streetworker.
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 06:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Neutral

then saying that people can not stop because they really WANT to, with out other consequences should not be in your vocabulary.
Nor should minimizing addiction. As someone with experience the last thing you should be doing is minimizing peoples addiction by saying " well , you are not addicted if you were not forced here"

0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 06:31 am
@shewolfnm,
I guess, I'm just following along as an observer here. I have a very limited amount of experience with drugs, and I've never been a huge drinker (save some rather asymptotic evenings). I've never struggled with any substance addiction so for me, reading this thread thus far is watching two camps that both have relevant experience describe their successes and failures.

I can understand strong emotions on a topic like this. If I had overcome a major addiction of any sort I'd have strong feelings related to that journey and the methods that worked (or didn't work).

To the anti-AA'ers, I'd be curious to know what parts of AA are good and could be applied to individuals lives to help them on their own or in other programs. Certainly, there must be something salvageable/recyclable from AA.

To the pro-AA'ers, I'd be curious as to what alternative plan you'd suggest for a person who was not being successful or did not feel comfortable in AA. Certainly, there must exist a respectable system outside of AA.

Also, can someone explain why a person is still an addict after they've quit? This has always been puzzling for me.

Alcoholics Anonymous
R
T
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 07:08 am
@failures art,
I think a positive aspect is that you see people who are not drinking, and realize this could be you.

Also, it does afford the opportunity to right wrongs you have done.
Chances are, if you're not drinking, you'll hold onto a job better, and will be able to repay debts you owe.

It gives you the chance to apologize to people close to you for being such an asshole, and taking accountability for your actions.

That's obviously not a notion unique to AA, but it is good to have a place to go to figure out what you're going to do with your life, and have better relationships with others.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 07:50 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:


Also, can someone explain why a person is still an addict after they've quit? This has always been puzzling for me.


For some people, this form of self identification works well for them. They need to associate with their past behaviors to remind them to stay sober. They may have tried many other things before and nothing worked except the constant reminder. Having to identify themselves as an addict, remembering that no, they cant have a beer with dinner for example..

It is just another way to help people who need something to keep them going on the path. Thats all.

Logically, when you are not actively USING a substance, or your body isnt in NEED of that substance, you are no longer addicted physically and not an "addict" by technical terms.
But, to those who need that kind of reminder, they are an addict for the rest of their lives because they know that if they ever use it again , it will mean returning to that path. So they tell themselves over and over and that helps them to stay focused. Thats all.
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 07:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

shewolfnm wrote:

That is the most offensive line of utter bullshit I have ever heard from anyone. And it is a common thought.


Might be. But it's the official definition for addiction as an illness - here, and in most other countries.

Of course, you can call that bullshit.
But it works and worked here and elsewhere.


I dont think you understood my point.

What i was calling untrue was you saying that if someone can stop simply because they want to, then they were not addicted in the first place.


If you have to make the decision, or feel the urge to, or know you HAVE to stop something , addiction plays a part in it. ( when it comes to substances) Dismissing those who can make that decision for themselves, calling them " not as addicted" is just.. not something I can ever hear anyone say and take it seriously.

We will have to agree to disagree there.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 07:54 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I don't say that AA is as bad, but i've gotten the same kind of hostility from AA people for challenging their cult mindset.


Sglass just proved that statement Smile
Sglass
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 10:27 am
@shewolfnm,
You sound like a "court ordered" which seldom works out for the simple reason that AA is for those that want it, not those that need it. Drunk
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 10:42 am
@Sglass,
Awww... look at the little troll. Ain't she cute?

Actually... you sound like maybe you've fallen off the wagon, dearie.
Sglass
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 10:50 am
@DrewDad,
what a bizarre, stupid thing to say DD, had your morning eye opener yet, a little hooch in your coffee Razz
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 10:55 am
@Sglass,
now where is your AA Christian spirit at, glassie?
Sglass
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:06 am
@Rockhead,
Well arn't you the buckle of the bible belt this morning. How are you sweet thang?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:11 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
from [___] people for challenging their cult mindset.


Yeah, funny how that is, eh, Setanta?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:11 am
@Sglass,
You refused to share, or don't you remember?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:13 am
@JTT,
What's your meaning JTT?

It really is a fill in the blank phrase.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:16 am
@shewolfnm,
Quote:
But, to those who need that kind of reminder, they are an addict for the rest of their lives because they know that if they ever use it again , it will mean returning to that path. So they tell themselves over and over and that helps them to stay focused. Thats all.


Whether one chooses to use that kind of reminder or not, both are still addicts.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:20 am
@chai2,
Quote:
What's your meaning JTT?

It really is a fill in the blank phrase.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....


Then it is a duck. You actually are pretty damn sharp, Chai2. I have to give you that.

I can't understand and at the same time I can understand why Sglass would be so, what's the word, angry, vehement, ... I'm not quite sure.
Sglass
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:30 am
@DrewDad,
you need to hear a share DD.....okay how about

it's the first drink that gets you drunk
 

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