Single mothers

au1929 wrote:

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My boyfriend and I have been dating for about six months now, and we have always been very sexually active. (And responsible, too.) Unfortunately, Dan, my boyfriend has been under the impression that if I were to accidentally get pregnant, I would be willing to have an abortion. Recently, we talked about it, and I told him that abortion is not an option for me—that if I do get pregnant, I'm going to keep the baby. Now he doesn't want to have sex with me anymore! What do I do, Dan?
Sexless In Seattle

That to me exemplifies our societal breakdown. Or at least roll reversal. That used to be what can only be termed as a man's complaint. I wonder if she got pregnant and kept the baby who would end up supporting the child. More than likely your tax dollars.

Don't worry, I never touched a dime of your tax dollars!!! I have always provided for my son on my own with my own blood and sweat!

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au1929 wrote:

sozobe
To me she is irresponsible. I have little doubt that she will find someone[s] willing to have sex with her. I can just imagine what the reaction to a letter like that would have been 50 years ago.

I am also very responsible, thank you very much!

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50 years ago?!?!?! WHOA!!!

Fine to have standards and all that (and I do!) but those of us raising children have to live in today's world, not the 1950s.

The woman in Dan's column is terribly immature. So glad she's not pregnant yet! That said, the law does require BOTH parents to support the child, not just the mother, regardless of who is immature, how the child was conceived, who wanted it, etc. So it sounds to me as though her boyfriend is simply taking responsibility for his actions. Which is a good thing.

But trying to categorize all single mothers as irresponsible is not. There are as many different situations as there are people involved.

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Montanna you're singing my tune, but I had two not one.
Why is it we blame and shame single mothers. They've been around since the begining of time and will be for much longer. Who cares how many adults live in a house and what the bonds are that hold them. Why is it anyones business ever? Morals are not universal, what works for me might not be your cup of tea, but I'm not judging you. Sexual repression is the real issue, I've dealt with my barriers, perhaps it's time you do the same.
Sex is not dirty or disgusting. The 1950's ideal is a fairy tale.

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JoanneDorel wrote:

Roger you mean like how do we produce responsible adults if as children they have only access to one parent?

Well, not quite what I meant, Joanne. Some woman wants to fullfill herself with children, and not be burdened with a man around the house, she might just consider a sperm bank. I guess then she would have to pay for the service, and the medical expenses, and costs of raising and educating a child - unless she can find some way of suing the doner.

Sorry if I sound harsh today, but there remains this unspoken assumption that the man involved is always at fault, and totally at fault. Sometimes; not always.

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Montana and Ceili, I was thinking of people like you when I wrote "CAN BE really unfortunate" rather than "IS." I know lots and lots of single mothers who do an outstanding job.

When things don't work out the blame lies, like most things, somewhere in the middle. Not all the woman's fault, not all the man's fault.

Btw my point with Dan's column was not how responsible or irresponsible the woman was (some would argue that wanting to keep the baby no matter what is the more responsible choice, and no birth control method is absolutely 100% effective), but what Dan was saying about the man's role.

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In other words, choice isn't just for girls. Your boyfriend also has a right to choose. Since the decision about being a father is out of his hands if you get pregnant, he's making his choice now.

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Sozobe, I agree whole heartedly with Dan Savage on this issue. I think the man in question is completely right, I have no issue with anything you've said, believe me.
Roger - I am a single mother, but my ex was a good single father - he has subsequently remarried.
I know plenty of men who are outstanding fathers (single or otherwise). Regardless of who is MORE to blame it takes two in any relationship to fail or make it a go.
The choice to have a child or not should not be up to societies scrutiny unless your an ax murderer or completly unfit, otherwise butt out.
More Tax dollars are spent on the military, big business incentives, ect ect ect than the paltry amount ever given to families in crisis. I hate that argument. Do the math, the United States is not in debt because people choose to have a child.
Sheesh, enough said.

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au1929 wrote:

sozobe

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au, men can't use birth control?

Sure they can but the fact remains that women still control the situation and are the ones left with the little package.
I should note that many times these women have more than one "accident". I feel for the children but not for the women. Unmarried ones that is.

Where does control and responsibility fall when it comes to STD's? Is it still the woman who is in control of the man protecting himself with a condom?

Why doesn't it work that way when it comes to pregnancy prevention?

If I were a sexually active guy who did not want the responsibility of a child, I would not rely on the word of the woman to protect myself. That's a copout that men are allowed to get away with in order to disassociate themselves from the consequences of not taking responsibility for their own protection, just as we women are asked to do.

It's a mentality such as that that allows lawsuits for McDonald's coffee burning someone who sticks a hot cup of coffee between their legs while driving.

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Thanks for the comment, Ceili. I was starting to get the notion that all single parenthood was caused by deadbeat dads and wifebeaters, and had to register a viewpoint before it all became written in stone.

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Sozobe and Roger
I also don't have any issues with anything either of you said ;-)

I agree that there are different reasons and situations as to why there are so many single mothers and I will be the last to judge men simply because of what one man put me through. Hell, there are many women out there who abandon their kids with dad simply because they don't want to deal with it. My son is proud of me for everything I've done for him and will continue to do for him, so obviously this question was purely an insult to me. It get's a rise out of me, but as long as my son is happy and has everything he needs, I won't lose any sleep over it.

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Montana
You seemed to have taken my remarks as being directed at you personally. They were in fact directed at the general level of morality in today's society. Which I believe leaves much to be desired?

As to the 1950s being a fairy tale I can assure you compared to today they were as pure as the driven snow.

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au, of course I took it personally! All your posts were speaking of unwed single mothers and I happen to be one of them. I am single by choice and I don't see anything wrong with that. Marriage to me is a very expensive piece of paper that I have no interest in purchasing. If I ever love a man enough to want to share my life with, I'll live with him for the rest of my life if it works out and I don't see anything wrong with that. I have nothing against marriage, but it's just not for me. When I'm in a relationship with someone I make a commitment to them to be honest and faithful, so what's wrong with that?

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Montana
That is the path you have chosen. How many however, did not choose that life style but had it thrust upon them not by choice or circumstance but by their promiscuity and lack of control.

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I'd estimate that the total is probably in the neighborhood of the same number of guys that took advantage of that promiscuity and lack of control and had unprotected sex with them.

Why is it that the woman is alway the out of control, promiscuis one? It still takes two to make a baby the old fashioned way, doesn't it?

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Butrflynet
Because women have a lot more to lose. I have yet to hear of a single case of male pregnancy.
By the way regarding the initial question . Has marriage become outmoded?

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What does the biology that enables a woman to bear a child have to do with you selectively deciding to label her as out of control and promiscuous if she gets pregnant while ignoring the man's responsibility and culpability?

Marriage hasn't changed. The need for a woman to have to marry a man for financial security has changed. Is that perhaps what your gripe is?

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Butrflynet

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The need for a woman to have to marry a man for financial security has changed.

It has ,has it? That is why we constantly read of children being hurt and killed when being left alone while their single mothers are out trying to scratch out a living. Like it or not generally a two parent family affords a far more stable environment for the child than a single parent home. I SAID GENERALLY!

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au1929 wrote:

Montana That is the path you have chosen. How many however, did not choose that life style but had it thrust upon them not by choice or circumstance but by their promiscuity and lack of control.

Regardless of promiscuity on the man AND the woman's part, au1929, no woman in America is forced into parenthood anymore. Birth control is cheap and readily available. And abortion is safe, legal, and much less expensive than childbirth. So it IS a choice. Single women often choose to be parents now. And many of them do a fine job of parenting.

Is marriage outdated? Well, I'm happily married, so I certainly hope not. However, women staying in bad marriages because of the inability to support themselves is definitely outdated. And we now know the children are better off with one stable parent.

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Eva well said - not to forget the "morning after pills" (not that I have ever had the need to use one Wink

) !!

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Eva
Although I am an advocate of freedom of choice I hate to think that it has become the fall back position for promiscuity and sexual freedom. I read an article recently that many women in Russia use it as such and have had multiple abortions.

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However, women staying in bad marriages because of the inability to support themselves is definitely outdated

That is a completely different subject and has never been suggested.

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